Rediscovering Comfort Food: The Open Face Experience in Rochester
Chris Lindstrom hosts a chat with owner Jared Valentine from Open Face currently located at the Goerge Eastman Museum. Make sure you swing by for some sandwiches, soup, and Moxie any day the Museum is open!
The conversation kicks off with a reflection on the restaurant's significance and its evolution over the years. Jared shares his journey from initially envisioning Open Face as an art gallery to successfully establishing it as a unique dining experience, influenced by his roots and favorite family recipes. The episode also explores the behind-the-scenes challenges of running a restaurant, including the importance of consistency and the need for adaptability in a changing culinary landscape.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Open Face (@openfacefoods)
- George Eastman Museum (@eastmanmuseum)
- New City Roastery (@newcityroc)
- Joe Bean Roasters (@joebeanroasters)
- Moxie Soda (@themoxiecompany)
- Cheesy Eddie's (@cheesyeddies)
- Red Fern (@redfernroc)
Mentioned in this episode:
Behind the Studio Door
Behind the Studio Door, hosted by Molly Darling and Christian Rivera, takes listeners on a exploration of artists and their creative processes. Through deep and meaningful conversations, they uncover the stories and experiences that shape the outward expression of their work.
Punches & Popcorn
The masters of Couch Potato style Mike Huntone, Jason Bills, and Dr. Dominic D’Amore take a deep dive into the best and worst of martial arts films. https://punches-and-popcorn.captivate.fm/
Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone.
Use promo code Lunchador for 15% off your order! https://shop.joebeanroasters.com
Transcript
I'm Chris Lindstrom, and this is the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker B:Rochester.
Speaker A:Well, why Rochester?
Speaker A:Chris Lindstrom was a hoot.
Speaker A:He was just so much fun.
Speaker A:He never stopped talking.
Speaker A:I mean, it was great.
Speaker A:Here's a good idea.
Speaker B:Have a point.
Speaker B:It makes it so much more interesting for the listener, and we don't need.
Speaker A:Any characters around to give the joint atmosphere.
Speaker B:Is that clear?
Speaker B:Because I'm a pro.
Speaker B:That's what pros do.
Speaker B:I'm a professional.
Speaker B:Look it up in the book.
Speaker A:But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.
Speaker A:And we are back with another episode of the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:And I'm here with a guest that, you know, when we're talking about, like, modern Rochester restaurants, like, people think about stuff from the last few years, and they think about everything that just opened.
Speaker A:But when I was just getting out of college, this is someone where.
Speaker A:His place was the place for this kind of thing in Rochester.
Speaker A:Guest, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us what you do?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:My name is Jared Valentine, and I'm the owner of Open Face.
Speaker A:So when I remember going to Open Face, and when I was just out of college, I wasn't a serious food person yet.
Speaker A:I remember during college, you know, I went to the University of Rochester.
Speaker A:I was dumb enough not to have rich parents.
Speaker A:I got a.
Speaker A:I got an engineering degree.
Speaker A:But, you know, for me, my normal food was things that I knew as somebody grew up closer to the country.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, home cooking, you know, basic.
Speaker A:Basic stuff, right?
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:That's what I knew.
Speaker A:And I remember just, like, as the weird anecdote, like, I remember I was working in the computer center, and somebody brought in trays of food from King and I.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It was Thai food.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And I'm like, what is this weird Chinese food?
Speaker A:I've never.
Speaker A:I had no idea what it was.
Speaker A:And that's where I was when I started, like, going around and learning about Rochester.
Speaker A:And one of the places that was like, oh, this place is doing so many wacky, weird things.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Was Open Face when I was starting to bounce around Rochester and learn about the area.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So kind of treat.
Speaker A:When.
Speaker A:When did.
Speaker A:When did Open Face first open?
Speaker A:Because you were in the South Wedge originally, right?
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B: opened in the south wedge in: Speaker B:So April that year.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:We had actually signed the lease a year before that and wasn't actually signed to be a restaurant at that time.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I had signed the lease to be an art gallery design studio.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Actually, I'll Pull the mic just a little bit closer for you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's interesting because I'm part of the, part of the network.
Speaker A:We have the behind the Glass gallery.
Speaker A:Richard Colon and Kwaje.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:You know, I'm decently involved with what's going on there and I, I was separated from that for a long time.
Speaker A:Was that your drive to do a gallery?
Speaker B:I mean, no, we.
Speaker B:It's just something I'd always wanted to do.
Speaker B:I was actually, you know, I graduated from RIT Industrial Design.
Speaker B:I thought I was going to design furniture.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I was working in an ad design studio out of college and I kind of just wanted to move in and do my own thing.
Speaker B:Um, so.
Speaker A:So what, what was your, what was your design aesthetic or aspirational design style at the time?
Speaker B:At the time, you know, it was kind of all over the place.
Speaker B:I always really enjoyed rustic industrial things that were happening back then a lot.
Speaker B:You know, a little bit of.
Speaker B:I, you know, it was still mid century stuff like people were doing then too.
Speaker B:I was really into that.
Speaker B:But, you know, I was very focused on, you know, showing art and that in the community at that, at that time.
Speaker B:And I was doing things, you know, with.
Speaker B:It used to be Pyramid Art center and now it's Roko.
Speaker B:And so I was doing like art shows there and putting together pieces and I was big into concrete poetry and that kind of thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker A:It's interesting to brought up like industrial and rustic at the same time.
Speaker A:I had, I.
Speaker A:I had that moment in my life where like my ideal aesthetic was like Adirondack with hard stainless steel.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That was like my dream aesthetic was like, give me Adirondack wood, but like I want like stainless steel counters.
Speaker A:Almost like Brutalist, like either concrete or stainless steel.
Speaker A:That was like my dream aesthetic at the time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like one of my things right now.
Speaker B:And I still love that style and the brutalist style.
Speaker B:And even when I walk into the new like, you know, concrete square Starbucks, I'm like, I just want to live in here.
Speaker B:Just concrete.
Speaker B:They've got concrete, a big bar and some wood and I'm good.
Speaker A:Yeah, well.
Speaker A:Cause that's.
Speaker A:And how you.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's a new movie that just came out called the Brutalist and it was about like a architect who does that style of design.
Speaker B:Oh, really?
Speaker A:It's like a three and a half hour monster.
Speaker A:It's got like, it has a planned intermission in it.
Speaker A:Oh, that's how long it is.
Speaker A:I'm not sure I'm interested, but, yeah, it's probably going to win tons of awards.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, you know, you're thinking about doing gallery.
Speaker A:How did.
Speaker A:How did you pivot that into a restaurant?
Speaker A:What was the impetus for that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, weirdly enough, you know, my ex at the time, we had gone back to his hometown in Long island, and his family wanted him to take me out to the Hamptons.
Speaker B:You know, I'm from the Midwest, so, you know, I wasn't really big into the New York scene or so.
Speaker A:What part of the Midwest?
Speaker B:Ohio.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Down towards Dayton.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Super small town down there, close to Indiana.
Speaker B:So, yeah, so we got out there and we did.
Speaker B:We did that trip and we were out and, you know, they were every.
Speaker B:I think the family was supportive about, you know, us signing a lease and wanting to do this space, but they were like, you know, no one really bought.
Speaker B:You buys art.
Speaker B:It's the classic thing, right?
Speaker B:Like, no one buys art.
Speaker B:You're not going to make a living.
Speaker B:And so we went to this lunch place, and I always joke it was the $20 grilled cheese sandwich in the Hamptons that changed our mind.
Speaker A:So, I mean, out of just vague interest, do you know if that was, like, one of the specific places?
Speaker A:Because I know, like, that's where.
Speaker A:What am I forgetting?
Speaker A:Who's this?
Speaker A:Ina Garten, who had the place in the Hamptons?
Speaker A:So it was like a deli grocery kind of place.
Speaker B:I'm not even sure where it was, to be honest with you.
Speaker B:I don't recall what was the specific place.
Speaker B:I just remember us kind of all talking over that lunch and being like, you know, everyone has to eat.
Speaker B:And we both had family members who had been in the food industry before.
Speaker B:So, you know, it kind of was a natural transition.
Speaker B:I grew up, you know, with a lot of, you know, food in the family.
Speaker B:And he was from an Italian family, so, yeah, it felt right at the time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, her place in the Hamptons, I'm trying to look back, and what it was called.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Now I think it's called Barefoot Contessa.
Speaker A:But it was, you know, she had owned a place there for a long time, and that's actually how she got her name out there, was owning that kind of place.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:I wouldn't be shocked if it was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, to be honest.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:It could have been so.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:That felt, you know, felt fresh, felt new at the time.
Speaker A:And part of why I'm talking about fresh and new because, like, everybody has, like, you know, the modern, you Know, the modern sentimentality about.
Speaker A:Oh, you know, I remember 10 years ago when, like, the new, New American movement started.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, and I think there's a separation of the newer generation from what was specifically exciting.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:At that time, which was, hey, we're combining fresh ingredients.
Speaker A:We're, you know, we're doing this, we're doing that, we're coming up with our own flavor combinations.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that was.
Speaker A:At the time that was.
Speaker A:Was blowing people's minds.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's kind of, you know, we were doing right in there with all that stuff.
Speaker B:You know, I was taking a lot of.
Speaker B:And I still like to do it.
Speaker B:You know, I have a family cookbook that my family put together back in the 70s.
Speaker B:It's all they had.
Speaker B:It's typewritten out and they photocopied.
Speaker B:It's all color coded.
Speaker A:That's, by the way, so Midwest.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:And it's giant.
Speaker B:It's like, it's huge.
Speaker B:It's awesome.
Speaker B:Four inches thick.
Speaker B:And it has all the categories.
Speaker B:Casseroles, you know, side dishes, meat soups and everything.
Speaker B:And so oftentimes what I was doing is pulling out that family cookbook.
Speaker B:And then just like everyone, I was, like, taking an old timey recipe that you grew up with and somehow making my own version of that.
Speaker B:It seems so, like.
Speaker B:Like it's been so overdone now.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It's hard to even talk about because it's.
Speaker B:But at the time, it felt very different to us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I agree.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:It's part of why I'm contextualizing just a little bit.
Speaker A:And I'm going to stop now after this, because it, you know, and there's always a balance with that stuff, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, I remember dishes when I was growing up that were, you know, poverty dishes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, there's, you know, one dish that, you know, got passed down from my dad's side.
Speaker A:Maybe the only dish that got passed down was it was like an old school beef dumpling.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It was like a shortening dumpling.
Speaker A:You put cheap beef inside with a pat of butter, and you boil them in a.
Speaker A:Like a cloth wrapper, and then you serve it with that boiled starch liquid, and then you salt the hell out of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:After.
Speaker A:But that was, you know, that's a dish that I remember so nostalgically.
Speaker A:I 100% know I could do a better job.
Speaker A:And when I'm talking about better, I'm talking about objectively better.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Every way.
Speaker A:Like, better cut of meat, more seasoning pre searing, doing this, building flavor, layering, doing all that stuff, it would objectively be a better dish.
Speaker B:All those nuances that you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That make it even more.
Speaker A:But at the same time, sometimes you can't change it without losing something that was special at the moment.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Which is always part of the challenge with family dishes, especially if you have nostalgia about them.
Speaker B:It's emotional.
Speaker B:Eating is emotional.
Speaker B:And so that's the thing.
Speaker B:And I found myself even bringing out that book within this last year.
Speaker B:And I am getting further away from wanting to make changes to those recipes.
Speaker B:I don't want to feel it more than it.
Speaker B:That it was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I want to have.
Speaker B:And one of them was a.
Speaker B:You know, the Cherry delight is a classic one for me.
Speaker B:And the broccoli casserole, we used to have that a lot growing up, and I now want to try to duplicate it exactly like I have.
Speaker B:And now I'm like, on a mission, because I can't.
Speaker B:I can't figure out, right.
Speaker B:That's the thing.
Speaker B:I'm like, how did they do this one?
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:That's the other thing.
Speaker A:Like the decisions that were made at the time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Even with a written recipe, there's how many steps were missing, how many feel moments are missing in family recipes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I mean, hell, cookbooks are the same way.
Speaker A:I mean, how many of the cookbooks have understood things, right.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker A:I mean, there's been articles recently, and there were famous articles about how long does it take to caramelize an onion?
Speaker A:Like, oh, caramelize an onion.
Speaker A:15 minutes.
Speaker A:I'm like, no, you're lying to people.
Speaker A:But that was the convention that was put in all the books, Right.
Speaker A:Because Nobody wanted a 50 minute to an hour step in a recipe to make onions go from white to brown.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:That's the reality.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Side note, I forgot to plug.
Speaker A:So Open Face is open at the George Eastman Museum.
Speaker A:George Eastman House.
Speaker A:What are the hours for everybody?
Speaker B:We follow museum hours.
Speaker B:So right now it's Tuesday through Saturday, 10 to 5, and then on Sunday, 11 to 5.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:So make sure you check that out.
Speaker A:You know, go grab some lunch, grab some early dinner, you know, on the way home from work, we'll.
Speaker A:We'll get more into what everything is now in a little bit.
Speaker A:So you're taking.
Speaker A:You got some family recipe ideas, you've got some.
Speaker A:You got some inspiration.
Speaker A:When you're going through the process of actually opening, what are the things you remember from that process?
Speaker A:Like, how painful was it for somebody who is just like, hey, I'm going into this space.
Speaker A:And also recollect, like, the South Wedge has a lot of older buildings in it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Still older buildings in it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They haven't gotten any newer.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:It's funny, one of the things I remember most about, you know, opening.
Speaker B:Of course, it's weirdly enough, going to Lux a lot.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, we're still killing it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We would go over there, you know, we would go in the space and we'd be working away and we would run over for happy hour for a little bit.
Speaker B:So it just was a fun time to be kind of putting a business together there.
Speaker B:But it.
Speaker B:It was hard, you know, like I said, we had a lease, and we dragged that first lease out for a whole year.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Because we did all the remodeling ourselves, and that was probably a bad idea.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, yes, obviously.
Speaker A:Yes and no.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, there's something about doing it where, you know, every corner of that building.
Speaker B:Fair.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, we.
Speaker B:Everything, you know, we had even made little in the.
Speaker B:In the.
Speaker B:In the wood floors.
Speaker B:They had the little patch tin where there was, like, busted spots.
Speaker B:How they used to do.
Speaker A:God, as soon as you mentioned that.
Speaker A:I remember that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, you know, there were everything, you know, and there.
Speaker B:The specifics of.
Speaker B:I jokingly say, you know, about the details.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The counter was built at a certain angle.
Speaker B:The way that the two entities kind of came together.
Speaker B:There was a wall unit, and then the counter reordered.
Speaker B:That angle was duplicated in the tabletops and the design of the tabletops.
Speaker B:And that angle was supposed to match the same angle that a sandwich came out on your plate.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it was those kind of new little things that when you walked in, you didn't know that we were kind of, like, manipulating you in a way that made it all feel good and, like, together.
Speaker B:But that was the kind of detail that was happening.
Speaker B:So that was the year.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It took a year.
Speaker A:That's a very.
Speaker A:That's a very specific design mind, which, by the way, I've run into similar thoughts in design.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:This angle mimics that angle.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's the unknown things.
Speaker A:These are the back of the mind things where you just feel something feels right.
Speaker B:There's a comfort.
Speaker B:I think you just.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:You maybe, you know, I don't want you to know it.
Speaker B:I'm just trying to make you feel this comfort that you're like.
Speaker B:This feels like a good space to me for some reason.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's talk About.
Speaker A:Let's talk about the menu.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So menu driven by.
Speaker A:Driven by sandwiches.
Speaker B:By sandwiches.
Speaker B:It was by open face sandwiches.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we had.
Speaker B:Originally, the first concept we had talked about, it was going to be.
Speaker B:I was obsessed with Chutney's at the time, and we were actually going to call it Chutneys.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:That's what it was going to be about.
Speaker B:These toppings, you know, that you would put on a sandwich.
Speaker B:All these different kind of, you know, gravy sauces, just anything that's around that.
Speaker B:And then that.
Speaker B:That's what led to Open Face.
Speaker B:And thinking, well, wait, it would kind of be fun to do them that in that style.
Speaker B:If the chutney is what is most important to me, you can really see that, the texture and the colors and all that.
Speaker B:And then I kind of just settled into.
Speaker B:We thought Open Face sounded a little bit more modern.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:And it had a little bit more flexibility.
Speaker B:So, yeah, we headed in that direction.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And you know that.
Speaker A:That's obviously the base.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What else was like the launch style?
Speaker A:I mean, soups, other things like that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The idea was, you know, we were doing our own soups.
Speaker B:A lot.
Speaker B:A lot of baked goods.
Speaker B:There's always been a lot of focus on that because I.
Speaker B:My family has a lot of baked good recipes.
Speaker B:Most of them.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That are traditional.
Speaker B:I have modified some of them.
Speaker B:But, yeah, just kind of, you know, we did the tea pharmacy we were big into at that time.
Speaker B:Everyone was still really into the coffee scene.
Speaker B:There wasn't a lot of tea options in Rochester.
Speaker B:So we had started blending our own teas and working with a couple different distributors throughout the country that were helping us with that, you know, and the tea came in vials.
Speaker B:I wanted them.
Speaker B:And you would have to build your own tea bag.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It was all about the experience of doing that, you know, and just lots of different beverages we were big into.
Speaker B:I think most people know by now we are like moxie fanatics, which I.
Speaker A:Did crack into it, and I was.
Speaker A:I got one when I visited last week, and I.
Speaker A:It's been a while since I had one.
Speaker A:My recollection is that it was more Angostura bitters.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And it's very wintergreen forward in like.
Speaker A:Like, an amazing way.
Speaker A:Like, it's wintergreen, but medicinal.
Speaker A:And it's weird, but to me, very comforting because that.
Speaker A:That wintergreen thing feels very like.
Speaker A:I loved birch beer when I was younger.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Wintergreen punch.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And it feels more root beer Y than cola y.
Speaker A:To me.
Speaker A:And it feels root beer brought back in time to where people just jammed lots of stuff into there.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:You know, Manhattan special is another big one for us.
Speaker B:We worked really hard to bring in sodas that, you know, we.
Speaker B:You couldn't get here.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:At one point, I was meeting people in vans and parking lots across.
Speaker B:No joke.
Speaker B:Seriously.
Speaker B:We would, like, intersect deliveries, and he would stop, and we would, like, pull out the truck and get what we needed, and he would move on.
Speaker B:Because it's.
Speaker B:It's always been frustrating to me that the way this, you know, that system works is you can't always get all this great stuff.
Speaker B:And it's a lot of regional things, so even the big red that we have right now, when I went home, I had to work out with my local gas station how to buy that off of them and then bring it back here so that we could have that here.
Speaker A:Oh, I.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was.
Speaker A:I was immediately thinking.
Speaker A:And I mistakenly.
Speaker A:I was thinking North Carolina and Cheerwine, but big bread.
Speaker A:Is that also cherry?
Speaker B:It is a.
Speaker B:Well, it's a red cream soda.
Speaker B:Okay, so red cream soda, and it's.
Speaker B:It's heavy in orange flavor.
Speaker A:Oh, interesting.
Speaker B:Out of Texas, so.
Speaker A:Oh, that's right.
Speaker A:That's right.
Speaker A:Well, weirdly, like, that's kind of Campari.
Speaker A:So it's like, without the bitterness, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So without the bitterness, it kind of goes in that same direction.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's really pretty sweet.
Speaker B:We, you know, growing up, we always had it as a.
Speaker B:It's a great float.
Speaker B:When you put ice cream in it, it's just fantastic.
Speaker B:But again, not something that, as an adult, I can.
Speaker B:I can really drink much anymore.
Speaker B:I had one.
Speaker B:And it also has caffeine, too.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:And a lot of cream sodas do not have caffeine.
Speaker B:So it's like all the sugar, all the caffeine.
Speaker B:And when I was in Ohio last time and I had one and I found that they had it, I was, like, buzzing for the whole day.
Speaker B:I was like, holy cow.
Speaker B:No wonder why kids down there are running around like crazy people.
Speaker A:No, that's pretty fun.
Speaker A:So, you know, you've kind of carved out that niche of like, hey, we love some stuff that's a little.
Speaker A:Little esoteric, a little bit outside of what.
Speaker A:What your standard sandwich shop might offer, Right?
Speaker A:Because at the time there.
Speaker A:There were some other sandwich shops doing soup and sandwiches, but you're kind of stepped away and you had that.
Speaker A:You know, it felt like a place people wanted to hang out Right.
Speaker A:It felt.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Like there were a few places.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There was like, at the time it would have been like there and like.
Speaker B:Sibone, maybe right over on Park Avenue.
Speaker A:Over on Park Ave.
Speaker A:Like, oh, you go for a sandwich and a little salad and you sit there and you hang out for a little bit.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I'm trying to think what.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm thinking of the other sandwich and soup place was like Nathan's.
Speaker B:That was old school.
Speaker B:That was really old school.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like, to me, I remember like those three as being like, so, like in tandem with each other in a very different way.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Each one.
Speaker A:And you know, you've carved out your spot and you were there in the South Wedge for a hot minute.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B: Until: Speaker B:So we watched a lot of things change over there.
Speaker B:A lot of places come and go.
Speaker B:We kind of, you know, we found our spot.
Speaker B:It was great.
Speaker B:It was a good vibe, it was a good run.
Speaker B:But, you know, all things pass.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'm kind of.
Speaker A:I'm kind of interested.
Speaker A:So that's.
Speaker A:That is a long run, right?
Speaker A:13 years.
Speaker A:I mean, now we.
Speaker A:We're actually just, you know, I think in the best way celebrating, you know, the run of Petit Poutine.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That was 13 years as well.
Speaker B:It was, yeah.
Speaker A:So that's a 13 year run.
Speaker A:I remember, you know, I mentioned this in the recent episode, but I remember going to the first truck.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, over near the public market and seeing where everything went over that time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, 13 years, a long time.
Speaker A:What was, you know, over that, over that time period?
Speaker A:How do you think your, your perspective changed over, you know, those 10 plus years at the same location?
Speaker B:Oh, man, it was.
Speaker B:It just was crazy.
Speaker B:Confusing.
Speaker B:Busy, hectic.
Speaker B:It was fun and furious.
Speaker B:It was like everything in one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, there.
Speaker B:It was hard.
Speaker B:It was really hard.
Speaker B:I think that a lot of people maybe don't know.
Speaker B:And I just had a conversation with someone else who has a business currently in the South Wedge.
Speaker B:We were just talking this last week and we were saying how people don't really understand that the South Wedge doesn't have foot traffic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's a weird perception that it's like this.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, it's hip and it's.
Speaker B:There's a great vibe, but if you want to be successful there, you have to find it somewhere outside of there.
Speaker B:And so while we had our regulars in the neighborhood, 75% of our business was catering business.
Speaker B:That happened outside of the South Wedge.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:At least well, and I think that's.
Speaker A:It's kind of the unknown to.
Speaker A:To the general public how much catering keeps businesses in business.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Because you were doing big orders for universities and other stuff, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, I mean, we were sending up sometimes 400 box lunches to U of R for orders.
Speaker B:We had a lot of departments there at U of R and at Strong, so it was keeping us busy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We were coming in sometimes three in the morning, starting these things, and then, you know, we open up at 11 for lunch.
Speaker B:Like none of that had happened.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And people just think, oh, you're ready to go.
Speaker B:And we're like, we already put in a whole day.
Speaker A:A nice relaxing morning before opening.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Some simple prep work.
Speaker B:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:So, you know, those are the kind of things that I think that people maybe don't realize are.
Speaker B:Are happening in those kind of small businesses.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I think before we go to break, I just kind of wanted to.
Speaker A:So you started with a certain, like, culinary perspective.
Speaker A:Did that end up changing as, you know, people's perceptions of culinary, you know, were changing?
Speaker A:Did you change or did you.
Speaker A:Did you stay where you were?
Speaker A:I'm not saying that's a positive or negative.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, I think that I changed probably more at when.
Speaker B:After I moved to the Eastman.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think that at when I was on South Avenue, it was pretty consistent, and we had just started dabbling in special sandwiches.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But my goal had always been consistency.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I, you know, for.
Speaker B:For all their faults, I'm a huge fan of, you know, franchises that have made it, chains that have made it.
Speaker B:I, you know, I love a lot of things about Starbucks and the mentality.
Speaker B:I'm obsessed with how places like McDonald's are able to duplicate something that is so hard to control.
Speaker B:The food industry is almost impossible to keep track of when there's so many things that are happening.
Speaker B:So it's just very.
Speaker B:Been intriguing to me how these bigger places are able to do that and keep that consistency.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It's kind of funny.
Speaker A:That reminds me of.
Speaker A:Reminds me of a guy who's unfortunately passed, but it was a John Vito who ran oh Bigelows, and he had a little sandwich spot over on.
Speaker A:I think it was Monroe kind of, you know, in one of the.
Speaker A:One of the bars over there.
Speaker A:And he never.
Speaker A:He didn't change a lot of things, but, man, he hammered out consistency and cared about every step of everything.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that always meant.
Speaker A:Means a lot to me as somebody that really cares about what they do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's what.
Speaker B:After we reopened, I had those people and be like, oh, wow, these are the ginger carrots that I had.
Speaker B:And I remember.
Speaker B:And that's what really we always wanted and wanted to be able to do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, let's go to break.
Speaker A:We're going to come back, and we're going to talk about Open Face at the Eastman and how that started.
Speaker A:And we'll be right back.
Speaker A:And we're back with the second half of our conversation.
Speaker A:During the break, we're kind of talking about constant improvement or consistent improvement.
Speaker A:There's something I've always loved about that because I kind of have an insatiable brain when it comes to information, when it comes to learning things, when it comes to, like, I always want to be better at everything I do, and I always feel bad if I don't consistently get better.
Speaker A:And when I hit Roadblocks, I get frustrated.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh.
Speaker A:And then I get over them and it's better.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:There's something special about that process of struggling through things.
Speaker A:I just did that in the studio with the switching video.
Speaker A:I was struggling with it for days, and then I just watched a YouTube video, and I figured it out in 10 minutes.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And I hate myself.
Speaker A:But you know what?
Speaker A:I also.
Speaker A:Sometimes you learn you have to give up on some parts of that to get better at other things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyways, that's just the way my brain's working right now.
Speaker A:So we were talking about.
Speaker A:Talking about the time in the South Wedge.
Speaker A: So coming to: Speaker A:You know, what.
Speaker A:What drove you to close at that time?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think at that time, there was.
Speaker B:I was having a lot of changes in my personal life.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And just kind of reconsidering what I was doing and where I was going.
Speaker B:I did lose my business partner at that time, I think.
Speaker B: Well, in about: Speaker B:So I had a year where I was doing it just by myself.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I was trying to hire more professional type people, not just, you know, like, fresh kids coming in who want a fun cafe job.
Speaker B:You know, that they are the classic.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I was really trying to hire a higher level of culinary experts in struggling with that for what I was doing there.
Speaker B:And when that wasn't kind of coming together, I just felt like maybe it was time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I just.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was a hard decision, and I didn't even give much notice.
Speaker B:I was, you know, obviously, I had to work with an attorney to get through all that.
Speaker B:And they were like, don't tell anyone.
Speaker B:Just do it.
Speaker B:And so that it was like one weekend I just made the announcement and, you know, it was like then the best weekend we ever had.
Speaker B:Obviously all these people came out and it was a lot of fun and a lot of story sharing, but it was, it was kind of a sad time.
Speaker A: en just, you know, earlier in: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And you know, it was an amazing, it was an amazing way to end.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:But I knew the cyclical nature.
Speaker A:I knew we had just gotten some press and I knew that come two months from then, I would have felt the doldrums of my internal failure and everything else.
Speaker A:And I, you know, sometimes, you know, when it's time, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And in.
Speaker A:Sometimes in the best possible way.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And I had a friend who was looking for a space at that time, and so we had started a conversation about, you know, me passing the, you know, that space over.
Speaker B:And it just seemed right then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that's what we were able to do.
Speaker A:So at that time, where did you, did you have an idea of where you were going outside of there?
Speaker A:Did you, did you have an idea in your head?
Speaker B:I was free falling.
Speaker B:Yeah, totally free falling.
Speaker B:I had a friend who was in real estate and so I did go get my license and I dabbled in that for a little bit.
Speaker B:I'm always, I have a lot of creative projects I'm always doing on the side.
Speaker B:So I got back into, you know, I'm working always about four books.
Speaker B:I'm always working on trying to get finished up.
Speaker B:So I kind of got back into that stuff and then just took a little time, visited family.
Speaker B:And then Zagster came along.
Speaker B:And so when Zagster came in, they scooped me up and I did that for the time that they were here.
Speaker A:So tell people about, if they don't remember that moment, what was Zagster?
Speaker B:So Zagster was the first bike share that came here to Rochester.
Speaker B:And I started out as what they called a rebalancer.
Speaker B:So it sounded very fancy and fun, but basically it just meant you were rebalancing the stock, the bike inventory.
Speaker A:Logistics.
Speaker B:Yeah, logistics.
Speaker B:And I have always been a logistics guy.
Speaker B:That's one of the reasons why even I still like the food industry, the logistics around it.
Speaker B:But yeah, I got into that and, you know, got kind of moved up a little bit.
Speaker B:And yeah, it was a really interesting model, business model.
Speaker B:I hadn't worked for Something like a tech company like that before, was it.
Speaker A:Still in startup mode at the moment?
Speaker B:It was still very fresh and constantly changing and, you know, pushing out new ideas and that, that, that really felt fun to me.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And exciting.
Speaker A:Well, because things break, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And, but that, that's kind of that same thing where even if you're running a, a business based on consistency, there's never not, there's always some sort of fire.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's always something that needs to be fixed, always something that needs that.
Speaker A:You know, it's got that, that peak of a certain kind of something.
Speaker B:So I always, when people come to me and they're about ready to get into food and they're like, what is the best advice you can give me about starting a restaurant?
Speaker B:And I always tell them starting a restaurant is like having a two year old that never grows up.
Speaker B:It's going to break shit, it's going to take your money, it's going to constantly cry, it's going to scream, it's going to keep you up at night.
Speaker B:That's the best way to put it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that, and that's even in a space where you were dialed in on consistency, you're dialed in on a fairly set menu like you had, you had built it to reduce that in many ways.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And still it never stops.
Speaker B:It never stops.
Speaker B:Even to this day.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But in Zackster was a lot like that too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that goes on for a little bit.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And what was after that?
Speaker B:After that was the COVID times.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I, Well, Zaxter moved into pace.
Speaker B:I was still there for the first year was pace.
Speaker B:And then the COVID times came and I took a role as what Rochester Regional was calling Covid relief as they were losing all of their staff because they were scared and nervous and no one knew they were trying to bring in extra people to help out.
Speaker B:And so basically my time there was.
Speaker B:I was in charge of this huge contraption that looked right out of Star Trek.
Speaker B:And my goal role was to push it into a room that potentially a COVID patient had been in or they were looking to sanitize.
Speaker B:You'd set it all up, you'd leave the room, you'd pull the trigger, hit the switch, it would like blast the room.
Speaker B:I put it back together and move on to the next.
Speaker B:And so I just did that for, yeah, months.
Speaker A:And that's just routine.
Speaker A:But it never stops.
Speaker B:Never.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And there's, you know, so much demand for your time and that's that, that's not a uncommon story.
Speaker A:Everybody that was in, you know, healthcare of any kind at that time or, you know, there was a never ending need for time.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So it was, you know, it was interesting for me.
Speaker B:I, you know, I was always kind of curious about the medical industry and what it might be like to work in it.
Speaker B:I met a lot of interesting people.
Speaker B:You know, they eventually moved me into the emergency room, which was a whole beast in itself.
Speaker B:Got to see kind of what it is like from, you know, all the shows that we get to watch.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, it's really, you know, it's really like that.
Speaker B:It's been pretty intense.
Speaker B:But, you know, eventually I was there and that's when the Eastman reach reached out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what it was there.
Speaker A:Was there something that was.
Speaker A:Was that just somebody recommended you or how did that actually happen?
Speaker B:So, yeah, I mean, the.
Speaker B: process of finishing up their: Speaker B:Bruce Barnes, the director, had been to.
Speaker B:To open face before, so he kind of knew about me and knew what I'd been doing.
Speaker B:So he actually reached out to me.
Speaker B:He was the one that reached out and kind of asked what I was up to and if it would be something I would consider.
Speaker B:So we started talking about what that would look like and yeah, that's how it came to be.
Speaker A:So it's fascinating.
Speaker A:So then you have to rebuild in a whole new space, rebuild your menu and revisit it from, you know, years before.
Speaker A:What was that process like?
Speaker B:You know, in a sense, for the consistency part.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Here's, here's my opportunity.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Can I consistently recreate something that I haven't even like stepped in for three years?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So that part was, was really exciting.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:I'd always considered this something that I would want to someday franchise.
Speaker B:So here was my chance.
Speaker B:Can I duplicate it?
Speaker B:Can I?
Speaker B:You know, in another location?
Speaker B:So, you know, we got to do that.
Speaker B:But it did give me an opportunity to kind of look at the business model a little bit different.
Speaker B:And this is when we talk about where the menu changed or how it changed.
Speaker B:This is when the changes started to really happen.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So what, what was like, what was the changes when you launched and what have you already changed since then?
Speaker B:Yeah, the first idea for me was because now we were in a museum and we.
Speaker B:It's visitor based.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:It's going to be people coming and going.
Speaker B:It's not going to be the community that we.
Speaker B:I really wanted to Expose these visitors to Rochester favorites and my favorites.
Speaker B:So bringing like cheesy Eddie's carrot cake.
Speaker B:That was for sure.
Speaker B:Redfern jam bars.
Speaker B:Love those.
Speaker B:We brought those in.
Speaker B:You know, those are.
Speaker A:Those are as dense as they like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, a neutron star.
Speaker A:Like, it's.
Speaker A:It's wild.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I love those things.
Speaker A:They're so good.
Speaker B:And you know, in working with, you know, we use New City Roastery for coffee like we wanted to.
Speaker A:You know, they've gotten better and better too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:They really have.
Speaker B:And I've done stuff with Faygo and we did some stuff with Joe Bean.
Speaker B:So we just kind of dabbled around with what were some of the things that we want to try to do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And show people that were coming in.
Speaker B:So that kind of changed because old open face, or OG Open face, as we like to call it is.
Speaker B:It was all about us.
Speaker B:It was very like egocentric, like, oh, it's only.
Speaker B:We only make things.
Speaker B:It's our things.
Speaker B:It's our secrets where.
Speaker B:That's the, that's the change that happened.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:I think that's.
Speaker A:I think that's also also with the.
Speaker A:The benefit of time and separation where you realize the things that you want to be precious about.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the things that.
Speaker A:Things that you don't.
Speaker A:I was in.
Speaker A:I was in Toronto not that long ago, and I visited a place and we're just.
Speaker A:It was a coffee shop in the morning and then it's like a pizza focused, wood fired pizza Focus restaurant at night.
Speaker B:Oh, interesting.
Speaker A:But it also was like also a wine bar in there and also this.
Speaker A:And also a gelato shop.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we just happen to be there in the morning and the, you know, the, you know, the chef and partial owner of the place was bringing in flour and stuff and we just got to talking.
Speaker A:We didn't talk for like 20 minutes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And the conversation I had with him was very much along those same lines where I'm like, where do you feel like your cutoffs are?
Speaker A:He's like, well, I do the stuff I'm really good at.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I've stopped.
Speaker A:I stopped trying to do absolutely everything.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker A:And focused on what I was really good at and let other people make.
Speaker A:Hey, this gelato place makes great gelato.
Speaker A:Why am I precious about making that when I can focus on making a great, approachable, hybrid wood night Neapolitan, you know, pizza.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's a business maturity, I think you reach.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You just understand that you can't do everything.
Speaker B:And I don't want to do everything.
Speaker B:I want to be.
Speaker B:I want to have the best of everything, but I don't need to do it all.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, you know, and you're still coming out with, you know, the.
Speaker A:Roughly the same style.
Speaker A:You're still talking sandwiches.
Speaker A:You still have got other things like that.
Speaker A:You know, talk.
Speaker A:Let's talk for a sec.
Speaker A:Let's go into, you know, some of the.
Speaker A:Some of the things that you consider your classics.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, like, throw out, like, a couple of the sandwiches and let's talk about them in a little bit of detail.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:Like, what's the classic?
Speaker A:If you were to say, this is.
Speaker B:The one, corn mash is the one.
Speaker A:So let's talk about it in detail.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What does that entail?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, you know, I was just dabbling in the kitchen one day.
Speaker B:It's usually how it goes.
Speaker B:I often don't have a vision.
Speaker B:Like, I just get in a creative mode, and this is sort of how all my creative projects go.
Speaker B:And I started thinking about like a, you know, a little bit like, growing up.
Speaker B:We used to have mush growing up, and we would, like, you buy the tube of it in the grocery store, cut it, you know, it's corn based, fry it up, and put maple syrup on it.
Speaker A:Now, when we're talking about that was that, you know, it's not scrapple, right?
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:So it's not.
Speaker A:It doesn't have all that stuff.
Speaker A:And it's more just like a cornmeal almost.
Speaker A:Just like polenta slices kind of.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:Um, and so I just was thinking a lot about that.
Speaker B:And, you know, corn growing up, you know, I'm on the Midwest.
Speaker B:Corn, corn, corn.
Speaker B:We're all corn fed, so I wanted to do something with that.
Speaker B:And I just thought, what, you know, how to make that open face.
Speaker B:It just naturally seems kind of like a hummus style, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then for me, it comes down to just like the classic equation, like, I want all the things I.
Speaker B:It's about having something mushy, having something crushed, crunchy, having something sweet and sour and, like, slightly spicy and, you know, bready.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's like a little equation that goes on in my mind.
Speaker B:And so then it sort of came together with the apricot barbecue glaze to give us that sweet and a little bit of spice.
Speaker B:The crunchy comes from the French fried onions and then, of course, melted cheddar on it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:So, like, this is just like.
Speaker A:If you like, just flavor after flavor after flavor, and you want, like, oh, I'm getting all the things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:This is your cornucopia flavors in one bite.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's pretty sweet too.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:I wouldn't say that it's like a savory sandwich because even the mash itself is pretty sweet.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And it gets a lot of the spice and stuff from the.
Speaker B:The barbecue.
Speaker B:But yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's definitely the one that if you ask most people or people are asking about interesting sandwiches in Rochester, it tends to up as one of them.
Speaker A:So on the.
Speaker A:On the menu, I mean, I'm sure you've carried a lot of the classics over from the time.
Speaker A:So that's when people know what's the one that.
Speaker A:If it's not that, Is there one that you want people to know more?
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Well, a lot.
Speaker B:A lot of them did get re envisioned, so sandwiches that had been cold got turned to hot and melty because we.
Speaker B:Who doesn't love melty cheese?
Speaker A:So delight.
Speaker B:We got rid of most of the things that were cold cheese and moved them into melty cheese.
Speaker B:You know, I think that the one that probably, you know, the mash p is one that I think that people are tend to be scared of interesting.
Speaker B:But it is the one that I think has the most interesting flavor combinations.
Speaker A:So what direction did you go with that?
Speaker A:I have.
Speaker A:My brain already was sparking with, like, did he go in a fun direction?
Speaker A:Did he go in a super classic, like, British direction?
Speaker A:Or did he take British to Indian direction with the chutney idea and go halfway in between?
Speaker A:Which is so British and Indian and all those things?
Speaker A:So I'm excited.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What's funny is I didn't even.
Speaker B:When I was doing that sandwich, obviously it was coming off of the corn mash success, and I was like, okay, well, this seems natural.
Speaker B:I didn't know that in the world there already existed sandwiches made with mashed peas.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Well, mushy peas.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That.
Speaker B:That was told to me, like, after the fact.
Speaker B:So I really.
Speaker B:It seriously was.
Speaker B:I didn't.
Speaker B:I didn't know that the British were already doing that.
Speaker B:I don't even know what that sandwich normally has on it.
Speaker A:It is, like, typically, it's a side.
Speaker A:Like, it's like, alongside like a fish fry or something else.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Like a side of mushy peas interest.
Speaker A:So they're, like, mashed together.
Speaker A:Usually they're overcooked to hell.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you can do it better with fresher ingredients.
Speaker A:You find a Restaurants will do that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But you Know, sometimes it'll be like mint and other things like that.
Speaker A:That's kind of like the British style.
Speaker A:But of course, because, you know, the UK has a wild amount of Indian influence through colonialism and forced labor and all sorts of things.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:As you do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So what direction did you go with the flavors?
Speaker B:So I wanted it, you know, I wanted the peas to remind me of those over buttered, over salted and peppery peas that I had growing up as a kid.
Speaker B:So again, I wanted that kind of flavor profile, profile in the pea itself.
Speaker B:And then we went right for balsamic vinegar glaze.
Speaker B:I wanted a lot of punch on it.
Speaker B:I wanted smelly cheese, so gorgonzola.
Speaker B:And of course, peas have to have bacon, so.
Speaker B:And we have vegan bacon, so, you know, if you're.
Speaker B:You need that, we can do that too.
Speaker B:But that's kind of the direction.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because that.
Speaker A:That also 100% works.
Speaker A:And like, I remember the vitriol that came out.
Speaker A:I think it was like, probably just before the pandemic, probably 19 or 18.
Speaker A:Like, the new York Times put out an article about green pea guacamole.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They called it guacamole based on green peas.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I remember the vitriol that.
Speaker A:And this was like, this was a thing for, like months that people are talking about that as a thing.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But at the same time, like, you know, it's really good, like, mashed up peas with flavors.
Speaker A:Like, you can do so many different directions.
Speaker A:We just brought up like five different directions.
Speaker A:You could take that in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:All of which are going to be delicious if you handle all the ingredients well.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:So really fun on that side.
Speaker A:And then, you know, when you're, you know, when you're setting up all the space there, you know, and you're deciding, hey, some things are going to be hot, some things are going to be cold.
Speaker A:What are some of the things you've tried to, like, redevelop that you had to.
Speaker A:You had to re envision because you couldn't quite get what you wanted out of it?
Speaker B:Wow, that's a good question.
Speaker B:I think for me, one of the things there that was, you know, it was great that the museum allowed me to have access to equipment that I didn't have access before the old location.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So when that equipment came in, it really allowed us to experiment with things that I hadn't got to do before, especially around hot sides.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We, we really, right now the focus has been increasing our, you know, specials that we're doing.
Speaker B:So special sandwiches, special side, special drinks.
Speaker B:So while the menu kind of is still consistent, stays the same.
Speaker B:It's allowing us to kind of explore and get into these different kinds of foods that we weren't able to do before.
Speaker B:Even just, like, Mac and cheese recently for us.
Speaker B:And, you know, it took us, no joke, probably 30 tries, and it was just about.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker B:Just keep going.
Speaker A:Mac and cheese is such a personal thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But it's one of those, like, no version is wrong.
Speaker A:I mean, there's versions that are wrong.
Speaker A:They don't think they're wrong, but they're wrong.
Speaker A:Yeah, but everybody has a preference.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And it's so personal.
Speaker A:It's like people's coffee orders.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:They're so invest in, personally invested or mentally invested in.
Speaker A:This is what I like.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And it's impossible to appeal to everybody, but you have to make sure you're satisfied.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:What we were working against was I had come from a family.
Speaker B:There's two sides.
Speaker B:You're either the baked Mac and cheese, or you're the Velveeta style.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And you're trying to get the hybrid.
Speaker B:And boom, you get it.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:That's all we were trying to get.
Speaker B:I wanted it to be creamy inside, but I wanted the outside to be, like, baked, like a baked.
Speaker B:And so I think we finally did get there.
Speaker B:But surprisingly, you know, it took a really long time.
Speaker A:Textural contrast, when it comes to not overcooking, but not undercooking, not being too liquidy, but not being dry, getting, you know, texture on top with that chew and maybe occasional breadcrumb crunch.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You're talking fundamentally about textural contrast, moisture management.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And maintaining all of that in a delicate balance.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's like, oh, everybody's.
Speaker A:Oh, it's just Mac and cheese.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:This is, like, so many different aspects coming together to make something in theory, that should be great.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:And I'm doing that in a kitchen that wasn't meant to do these kind of things.
Speaker B:So that's the other, you know, the challenge for me.
Speaker B:But, yeah, it's that it makes it interesting.
Speaker A:So Open face at the George Eastman House and Museum.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What's next?
Speaker A:You know, what's coming up next?
Speaker A:What's.
Speaker A:Is there anything on the horizon specifically, or is it just continuing to evolve?
Speaker B:There are.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I actually just filled a position about six months ago for what we're calling a kitchen bakery associate.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:And he is there to help me, hopefully, launch our wholesale cookie program.
Speaker A:Oh, Fun.
Speaker B:So we've been wanting to.
Speaker B:That's one of the goals I've had for a long time.
Speaker B:You know, I've always known that I.
Speaker B:Our baked goods are something that I kind of wanted to get more out into the market along with things like, you know, our sides, ginger, carrots, and that kind of stuff.
Speaker A:Those are great, by the way.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, the texture on those is so good, the vinegariness, but they're punchy, they're approachable, and the ginger flavor really stands out.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:That's a great side.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're really.
Speaker B:They're popular.
Speaker B:They're just hard to figure out how to duplicate in a mask kind of quantity.
Speaker A:So another thing where the texture, like.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's when I bite into something that I don't have to think about it because I've been satisfied.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Usually I'm an analytical monster when it comes to tasting.
Speaker A:When I bit in, like, oh.
Speaker A:Oh, this is perfect.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Move on.
Speaker A:Like, I would add more salt, but I would add more salt every.
Speaker A:Fair enough.
Speaker A:But, like, other than that, like, texturally perfect.
Speaker A:It wasn't mushy, it wasn't crunchy.
Speaker A:The vinegar was punchy, but it wasn't too much.
Speaker A:It was just like, oh, all right.
Speaker A:I'm in good hands.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:But, yeah, really, it's those kind of things we're looking at.
Speaker B:Next step to how to kind of get more out in the Rochester scene and just kind of get out.
Speaker B:Get our name out, do different things.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So I think what I want to leave everybody with is, yes.
Speaker A:Open Face is in the George Eastman House.
Speaker A:George Eastman Museum.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:You can go in without having admission.
Speaker A:You can visit during lunch.
Speaker A:You can order.
Speaker A:So people can just come in and get lunch anytime they want.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Is there a way to order online as well so you can get it picked?
Speaker A:So you can pick it up there?
Speaker B:There's online ordering available.
Speaker B:We're doing curbside.
Speaker B:They have a great location for curbside.
Speaker B:So you can just pull up out front.
Speaker B:We'll bring it out.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Super convenient.
Speaker A:And I think that's the other thing is something that I think is going to be a constant echo this year is support your local businesses.
Speaker A:This is a local institution inside of a local institution.
Speaker B:Two for one.
Speaker A:So one, you know, definitely go.
Speaker A:You know, go to the museum, get.
Speaker A:Get some food, hang out, have a great time.
Speaker A:But, hey, you need a quick lunch.
Speaker A:You know, instead of supporting a national or multinational chain, you just need a really good soup and sandwich or something else.
Speaker A:Order from a local place that's been serving the community for well over 10 years.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:And it's a beautiful location there.
Speaker B:I mean, it really is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The Palm House.
Speaker B:It's beautiful scenery.
Speaker B:It looks great no matter what season.
Speaker B:So it's sometimes hard to imagine that we're actually at that slope at that spot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It is a really cool space.
Speaker A:And just.
Speaker A:Just spending time there, even a little bit, makes you feel good about being in Rochester, which, you know, sometimes we all need that reminder.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, there's history and present and everything else.
Speaker A:Sometimes it's just nice to be in a space that just feels great to be in for.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So put the final plugs out there and we're gonna close out for today.
Speaker A:So is there a website people can go to specifically?
Speaker B:So, yeah, we're all through the Eastman.
Speaker B:So if you go to eastman.org you can find us there.
Speaker B:That's where you'll find the online ordering.
Speaker B:You can also find us on Instagram at Open Face Foods.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's it.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, thanks so much for coming over, man.
Speaker A:I really enjoyed this.
Speaker A:So if you want to check out the other shows on the Lunchadore Podcast network, I'm going to highlight in this Moment.
Speaker A:We're just at their launch event for their most recent book releases, and we have our first audiobook up now on the in this Moment podcast feed.
Speaker A:You can also find that on lunchadore.org we're going to be producing all of their books as audiobooks.
Speaker A:We're super excited about that.
Speaker A:So we'll be back next time with more on the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:Make sure you go support local businesses.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening to the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:If you aren't already subscribed, what are you waiting for?
Speaker A:Go to your podcast app of choice and make us your favorite podcast by subscribing and leaving a review if you can.
Speaker A:Music for the podcast was created by the fabulous Taurus Savant.
Speaker A:You can hear more of his work at Tour Savant Bandcamp Dot and make your presence known by seeing him perform live.
Speaker A:Food About Town is a proud member of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker A:Oh, no.
Speaker A:Here comes McKenneth.
Speaker A:This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker A:Use moxie as your mixer, you cowards.
