NA Beverages - Chris Clemens Non ROCaholic - Untitled Art

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Mr. Chris Clemens. Welcome to: 2024

CHRIS CLEMENS

Thanks, man. It's good to be back. It has been a while.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It has. I know we've run into each other here and there around Rochester, but it's hard to grab the actual time. I think we both get ourselves into lots of situations.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah. We both end up finding things that we commit to that take up all of our free time.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It's like whatever new thing. It's like, oh, that's a full time hobby. How about we get another one of those? I had one.

CHRIS CLEMENS

You know what?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I really want another full time hobby.

CHRIS CLEMENS

And I'll put your spare 5 minutes a week.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

So I think we're going to do a little series going through a few Na beverages. We're trying to make it more of a thing with. There's a lot of people going into doing dry January right now, so this will probably come out in the next week or so. And I think it's interesting to talk about this stuff in more detail. You've been spending a lot of time doing research and trying everything you can find on the market.

CHRIS CLEMENS

I have. And actually, I've been doing that. You know, this. I've been doing that for a very long time. But the last couple of years, maybe I have noticed there's been such an incredible uptick in products that are coming to the scene that it's become kind of exciting. Before, it was kind of. I don't want to say difficult or begrudgingly, but it was difficult to find things. And now, no matter how much research you do, like, it's endless.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Oh, yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

There's a non alcoholic beer canned right here in Rochester, New York, that I've never heard of until last week.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah, you mentioned it to me yesterday, and I proceed right away. You're like, where can you get this one? I did find where it's likely distributed, but the problem is there's, like, a distributor with a very similar name, so it gets really confused.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Okay.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

But I started messaging somebody I know who works at Genesee and seeing if we can figure out where to get it.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Nice. I'd love to try it.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I did see that. It's, like, one of the cheapest things on the market.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah. It's not a high end beer. We haven't even said the name yet. Penn's best.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. $3 for a six pack is the price that I saw, like, the boone's.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Farm wine of non alcoholic beers. Yeah, but why I mentioned that is because I'm constantly looking to see what's out there. And 510 years ago, it wasn't difficult to come up with a final list. And in the last few years, suddenly there's just all this new stuff on the market, and Penn's best is not one of those. They've been around forever, but there's just constantly new things on the market. It's becoming more popular. You mentioned dry January. Just a couple of days ago, I noticed that the American Cancer society is promoting dry February. There's a dry July. There's sober October.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I mean, you've signed up for every one of those months.

CHRIS CLEMENS

I am. I am sober 100% of the time, but I think it's really cool to see how many people are embracing this idea of trying to dry out here or there and give their bodies and their brains a reset. I've got a good friend of mine who I never, ever would have thought would have taken a month off from alcohol, and he did. And after a couple of weeks, he goes, I got to tell you, I can't believe how good I feel. Yeah. Again, he's the last person I ever would have thought would have tried it. I don't think he's someone who has a problem, but he goes, I was having a drink or two every single day, and I went with a few weeks without it, and he was sleeping better and his thoughts were more focused and coherent. So it's interesting to see that it's cool to be sober now.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah, it's wildly, especially in the younger generations. Now we're talking two generations younger than us, which is great. Boy. But it's also true that it's definitely more acceptable, and weirdly, acceptable is the first thing that came to mind. But it's embraced.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, it's almost cool.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I think the options out there are much more exciting, and that's what we're going to touch on in this little miniseries. Talking about some of these products, because I like having these during the week. I've definitely gone down where I'm at once or twice a week now. Usually it's like one, like an ounce of something, because I just love the process of tasting, but I don't know. I have, like, three or four total equivalent drinks a week now, and it's very low. And one of the reasons is because a lot of the NA options are delightful.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, definitely. And I think to that point, there are some people who are doing dry January or taking these 30 days of a month and not having any alcohol, but there are also people who are saying, I like to have three or four drinks in a night, and if the first two have alcohol, they can still hang out and have a couple that don't have alcohol, and their night.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Isn'T over early for sure.

CHRIS CLEMENS

So there's a whole bunch of reasons why I think people might be embracing more non alcoholic options, but the fact that there's more that exist and, like, to your point, they're getting better and better.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. Well, speaking of better and better, in this episode, we're going to go through one brand. So this isn't everything they have in the market, but I grabbed three from this brand, which I think should be a decent picture of what they do. So let's dive in and let's see what we think. So this brand is untitled art. I think you're doing a search before it turns out they're from Wisconsin.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Right? Walkie. I don't know how to pronounce this.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Wisconsin is a lot like western New York, especially Buffalo, with a lot of native based names.

CHRIS CLEMENS

You don't pronounce it phonetically.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah, improperly at best, for us. But we're here to try a couple. Try three of their things. We have the juicy IPA. We've got a mango dragon fruit sour, and a chocolate dark brew. So this is a wide different styles of things. I know we've both tried many ipas. I know I'm probably more of an IPA person than you are, generally, but let's dive in. Let's try the juicy IPA first.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Start with this.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

So, yeah, we're going to do our is, I'd say one of the nice things about this one, know, the designs aren't just like, oh, this is blank, but, like, this has its whole design. And this is, for all intents and purposes, really driven as an Na product. And the design is beautiful on the cans. Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

It's an attractive aesthetic. It's artistic, artisanal.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It makes you want to at least take a sip. So on the nose, this is like very lean mango. Like, under ripe mango.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, there's a whole bunch of citrus.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. Orange for sure. Lots of orange. It's very pleasant on the nose. I like it quite a bit. It's definitely hazy. This is going towards that modern, hazy style IPA, and this one's very lean. I mean, there's a lot of ipas that still taste relatively sweet, even from an Na perspective. With large amounts of alcohol, you almost keep that sweetness. And a lot of people like that. This is very dry, pretty, I'd say medium bitter on it. It's not like, super soft. When it comes to bitterness. Medium bitterness and a lot of underripe tropical fruits. The nose is juicier than the taste. This is a pretty dry affair. And if you liken a dry ipa, this might be for you. I'm not the biggest fan of it, but it's like if somebody served it to me, I would not be unpleased with it. I'm not sure I'd be a regular consumer of it, though.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah. The more nonalcoholic beers that I try and explore, I think the more I find that I lean away from ipas.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

That's completely fair.

CHRIS CLEMENS

But this is one that I think, like, if I was at a party and was the only option or at a restaurant or something, I would enjoy it once, but this isn't going to be in my regular rotation.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah, I'd say that's completely fair. I know I've had a number of the IPA options out there. Again, this probably isn't one I would buy often, but again, if it showed up in a mix pack, if it showed up at a party, if it was the option at a bar, yeah, I would grab one for sure. Let's try out the sour. I know you're a bigger fan of sours. I do.

CHRIS CLEMENS

e this. I think it was August: 2021

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Oh, God. It was that long ago.

CHRIS CLEMENS

It was.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Oh, jeez. Years. Wow.

CHRIS CLEMENS

I don't like hearing that with Brian van Etten.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yep.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Who is here in spiritless shout out BVE. And he brought, I believe it was agoza from athletic brewing.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It's still probably the best thing I've had from athletic. And I like a lot of their stuff. I was talking with a local rep at one of our nominate events. They were doing a pouring of that at Fatty beer company. So they were doing samples. No. Of their whole line. That's right now. And I tried everything again. I really like the vast majority of that line. Yeah. Very successful. But I haven't seen the Goza since, like, then. I've actually for it because I really enjoyed that one. Let's see.

CHRIS CLEMENS

I really like the color of this.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

And I don't know if serious beer nerds would be okay with this almost tangerine looking, for sure.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I mean, this is actually what a lot of people like now in fruited beers. They almost just pour fruit puree into it at the end.

CHRIS CLEMENS

And that doesn't make it too sweet?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Oh, no, it definitely makes it sweet. But that's the style. So one of the local breweries here in our area is mortalis. And they're one of the drivers of that style, where it's heavily fruit pureed and sometimes with like, marshmallow and lactose and things like that to get this, it's almost like. They'll call it like a smoothie sour. Okay. Where it's got this big vanilla, huge fruit bomb of sweetness and everything else. It's not my style of things. I don't love it. It's a little too much. I like clean, harder sour sours.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Okay.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

But that's my preference.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Is the beer scene at large embracing that as being cool?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I'd say it is very trendy. It's something many breweries are doing. They're very popular right now. One of the benefits is that it's a gateway for non beer drinkers to get into beer.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Oh, okay.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Because it is, for all intents and purposes, the heavy fruits. I do not taste like beer whatsoever.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Sure. Yeah.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

They taste like fruit and vanilla and marshmallow or whatever else is in there. Pie crust. I'm seriously, they'll do a pie crust, they'll do the other stuff. And pastry, like pastry stouts, where they're putting in all these huge adjuncts, a lot of it's really. They can be delicious, but the most I'd ever want is like an ounce. I don't want 16oz of that or a full 750 bottle. That's way too much. I want 1oz of that, maybe. But I'm old now when it comes to this scene, and it's like, I want beer flavored beer still. But I do love sours. I'm interested to try this.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, I haven't taken a sip yet. The smell is kind of grapefruity.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. So this one that says it's mango dragon fruit, I think I get mango dragon fruit is one of those flavors that is, if you ever have a dragon fruit, it's very subtle. It's like light floral, and that's about it. It doesn't have a lot of character in of itself, but excited to try it. The smell is very fruity and pleasant. It's another one that's very subtle.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah. The nose is more profound than the taste, for sure. I think it's out much more in the smell.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Absolutely. So, personally, I would want this to be twice as sour. I want a harder sour. But it actually does have enough to make me know it's a sour. It's not like fruit pureed to the end of time for me.

CHRIS CLEMENS

It drinks very easy.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Almost like a soda.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah, for sure. You know what? I could 100% see this, like, sitting outside by the pool on a hot day. Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

This is a summer one.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Again, I maybe would want to split this with somebody because this is fruitier versus crisper sour. But this is on the. Acceptable, for me, the range that I like on how much fruit is in there.

CHRIS CLEMENS

I might actually play with this as a mixed drink as well. 100% other stuff in there.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. Because the carbonation is very subtle on this, but it would work. Spreading out with one of the na spirits or na bitter spirit. What was that? The liars bitter that we had had before.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Did we try that here?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Episode.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I think so. I've tried it in the past. I thought it was very good. I could see this working with that.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Trying to remember what we had.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It was a lot of things.

CHRIS CLEMENS

It was a lot of things. And three years feels kind of like a long time.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. Very little has happened in time.

CHRIS CLEMENS

I got to say. So I've had a few sips of this now since we've cracked it. Yeah, I like it. And it's probably my favorite of all of the untitled art line that I've had.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. This is my first time tasting through any of these. And I know you've tried line, you mean. Yeah, you've tried some of them, if not all of them.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Before, not all of them, but some.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

This one was new to you, right?

CHRIS CLEMENS

It was, yeah. And of their entire line, this moved to the top for me.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

And so far, we still got one more to go here.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

And I agree with you, by the way, that this really does play like grapefruit, even though there's no grapefruit in it.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah. There's something about the sourness that changes the flavor of the mango into something different.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah, for sure, because I definitely know it's mango, but at the same time, it plays, like, soft, ruby red Grapefruit almost. Yeah. I could see buying a six pack of this and having in the fridge for Carrie because she likes sours. She likes fruited sours. I could see her really enjoying this. So I think that's one I'll likely buy a six pack up and have sitting in the house.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Nice. All right. Well titled art.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah, nice stuff. And we've got one more to try that I brought. Why don't you take a look at that and see what says in the can.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Chocolate dark brew malt beverage with natural flavors.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I will be very interested to try this one. This one is because I've had success with some of the darker stuff.

CHRIS CLEMENS

You mean specifically referring to non alcoholic darker stuff?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Because I think that darker malt, it covers that richness side of things where you don't need the alcohol as much to get through it. While ipas are balanced by that body of alcohol, I think the darker stuff almost stands on its own a little bit more like the Guinness. And I've had the athletic, extra dark.

CHRIS CLEMENS

The Guinness is kind of on another level.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I love it.

CHRIS CLEMENS

It's hard not to.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It is my default. Like, if I want something during the week and I don't want alcohol at all, and I just want, like, oh, I want to sit with something for a few minutes. I don't want to think about it.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Most of the time, I'm thinking about everything I'm tasting.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Sure. But the Guinness is reliable and I.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Don'T need to think about it.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Right.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Which is pretty nice when you're like, I'm just pouring something to sit in, sit in my glass while I'm watching a show or something. The color on this is nice, actually.

CHRIS CLEMENS

It is. It's very rich. The smell. The aroma of chocolate immediately stands out.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Oh, yeah. But it's not like Hershey's syrup chocolate. It's a little bit more chocolatey than that. Yeah. It's not like single origin chocolate smell or anything like that, but it's very pleasant.

CHRIS CLEMENS

In fairness, will you ever get a single origin cacao smell out of any beer?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

No. I would not expect it either. It's a very pleasant chocolate, but I wouldn't say it's fruity or it's just chocolate. Is chocolate. Is the smell. Yeah, almost in the glass. It almost has a cola like. Totally.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, absolutely. That was the first thing I thought.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It has a Cola like look. It almost has a redness. It's not opaque, obviously, because of the malt. It's pretty dark. Nose is nice. Take a taste.

CHRIS CLEMENS

So it's pretty mild. Yeah, for sure in the beginning, but it ends up with a little bit of chocolate in the end.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

I definitely didn't recognize it in the beginning, for sure.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I almost wish it was more bitter. Oh, yeah. I want a little bit more of that dark malt bitterness to it. It plays a little more chocolatey than it does dark.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, it definitely is on the malt.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I almost want it to be a little bit more like a porter, where it has that. Just a little bit more of that dark malt to balance out the chocolate flavors. I think the chocolate flavors are pleasant and pretty there throughout. I know what you mean. That it finishes more chocolatey. For sure, though. Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

The very first part of the sip, it doesn't seem to stand out as strongly, but the aftertaste and the lingering. I don't know, the tasting lingo.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

No. Yeah. The language is useful when you're doing. If I'm sitting on a table of, like, four tasters, it's really nice to. We're using specific terminology to talk about where the flavors are hitting.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, that can be very overwhelming for.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

The average person, I would imagine. If I'm talking about finish and post.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Finish, it feels like going to.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

An.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Art show, and you look at the piece of art and you're like, I don't get it. But everybody else is like, this really reaches me and it really stands out. Resonates with me. I went to a coffee tasting class at. Oh, yeah, a decade ago. It was forever.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yep.

CHRIS CLEMENS

And it was led by.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yep.

CHRIS CLEMENS

And there was a whole bunch of people in there who were all really engaged. And one of the other people, the other customers, was like, I get a toasted birch off this one. And I was like, I don't get this at all. It tastes like really good coffee to me. But when people start talking about, like, oh, I get a sour Raspberry, I can't always engage with those things. And sometimes it makes me feel like I don't belong in the conversation.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It is challenging, and it's one of those hard things because I love the process of tasting like that.

CHRIS CLEMENS

You're nerdy as hell.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Oh, so much. I really like it. But I admit I've had struggles sitting with coffee people, especially when I was first learning. Trying to isolate flavors is challenging. And I am so wildly impressed by some of the people I know that do coffee tasting. I know we had on the level up coffee podcast, Janine, apologize. I do forget her last name, but she's actually a Q grader, and she's gone through the process of getting certified as a coffee evaluator. And, man, the stuff that she went through to go through that process was, I can't.

CHRIS CLEMENS

It's grueling.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

It's amazing. And I'm just blown away by the effort and tasting talent that goes into that. I feel like I'm decent at stuff like that. And then I get in a room with people, I'm like, man, I'm just an amateur in comparison, and it makes you, like, so happy.

CHRIS CLEMENS

But then the average person is like, I'm not even close to being average at it. A lot of times I'm able to just say, like, this is good. And sometimes I don't always know why it's good. It's just because I like it.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

You know what? Good is good, man. Good is good. And I think what I'm going to say is, overall, I like where this stuff is going that I tasted today.

CHRIS CLEMENS

You're specifically talking about the untotled art.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Okay.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. Because I think we're going to wrap up this one, and then we're going to go on to part two, part three to come out later. We're recording them all in one session. This is not radio magic here, but I guess I overall like where things are going. I don't think they're targeting all of the flavors to exactly what I would want. Like, I want more bitterness in the dark. I want more sour in the sour. I want a little bit more balance in the IPA. But I like a lot of the base things that are going on.

CHRIS CLEMENS

But here's one quick comment on that, please. And I know this about you because I've known you for so long and spent so much time with you. You like very bold, dare I use the word outrageous flavors in a lot of things. And the average person might not. So the non alcoholic scene and the people who are producing these things, I would imagine, are trying to appeal to the widest audience as possible, for sure. So maybe they're dialing it back on purpose to be more approachable for the average person.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

And that completely makes sense because, like I said, I think the bases are good. I'm going to definitely buy the mango dragon fruit sour to have in the fridge at home for when my wife is back in Rochester. And I think that'll be nice. It's a nice option. And I will certainly try the rest of the stuff they have on the market.

CHRIS CLEMENS

We haven't talked about this prior to the show.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Do we want to talk about where people can buy this stuff locally?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Oh, I think that would be fine. Absolutely.

CHRIS CLEMENS

You got all these at AJ's beer warehouse, right?

CHRIS LINDSTROM

I did, yep. That's an easy one. Right in Henrietta. It's a good source. They have a whole section of any stuff right in the same area, which is really nice.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Tell you what, man, they've got, like five coolers, which is real impressive because just like a year and a half ago, they didn't. It's expanded a ton.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Absolutely. And they're one of the good sources for that. Yeah.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Beers of the world now has two full aisles.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Wow.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Yeah, it's huge. And again, three, four years ago, they had just a couple of options, and I'm talking mostly beer.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Yeah. And I haven't been in, so I'm not going to speak 100%. I'd be surprised if one stop beer shop doesn't have a good selection as well. If you're in the north of Rochester, they're a craft beer shop top to bottom. I'm sure they have a decent selection there. And obviously, big box stores in our area have them as well.

CHRIS CLEMENS

Wegmans, to their credit, has vastly expanded, and it includes the untitled art line.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

Absolutely. So we're going to wrap up this one. Chris, where can people find your work on non alcoholic beverages?

CHRIS CLEMENS

Nonrocaholic.com. It's nonrocaholic on Instagram, which has been a great bit of fun.

CHRIS LINDSTROM

And I've learned so much watching all the stuff you found and the amount of research you put into your stuff always impresses me, now and forever. So we're going to close out this episode. We'll be back next time with another episode of the Food about Town podcast.