Garlic Fest Preview: Cooking Demo with Brud Holland from Fox Run
Check out the upcoming Glorious Garlic Festival (@gloriousgarlicfestival) being held at the Geneva Lakefront on August 2nd and 3rd. Chris chats with Brud Holland (@flxmaker), the chef at Fox Run Vineyards, who shares insights about his Sunday cooking demo at the festival, where he’ll showcase a creative dish featuring local ingredients like blue corn and organic chickpeas. They explore the importance of using fresh, local products in cooking and how these choices enhance flavors, making food not just nutritious but also a delightful experience.
References:
gloriousgarlicfestival.com - foxrunvineyards.com (@foxrunvineyards) - senecagreenandbean.com (@senecagrainandbean) - Amazing Grains (@saltybreadbakery)
Mentioned in this episode:
Joe Bean Roasters
Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone. https://shop.joebeanroasters.com
Punches & Popcorn
The masters of Couch Potato style Mike Huntone, Jason Bills, and Dr. Dominic D’Amore take a deep dive into the best and worst of martial arts films. https://punches-and-popcorn.captivate.fm/
Mind of Magnus
Check out Mind of Magnus at magnusapollo.com, and leave him factoids at 585-310-2473! https://mind-of-magnus.captivate.fm
Transcript
I'm Chris Lindstrom, and this is the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker B:Rochester.
Speaker B:Well, why Rochester?
Speaker A:Chris Lindstrom was a hoot.
Speaker A:He was just so much fun.
Speaker A:He never stopped talking.
Speaker B:I mean, it was great.
Speaker B:Here's a good idea.
Speaker A:Have a point.
Speaker B:It makes it so much more interesting for the listener, and we don't need.
Speaker A:Any characters around to give the joint atmosphere.
Speaker B:Is that clear?
Speaker B:We can.
Speaker B:I'm a pro.
Speaker B:That's what pros do.
Speaker B:I'm a professional.
Speaker A:Look it up in the book.
Speaker A:But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.
Speaker A:And we are back with another episode of the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:Wait a second.
Speaker A:Wait a second.
Speaker A:It's an episode, so.
Speaker A:Ooh, that's a. Oh, that's all over the place.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:I'm not sure that's the best way to start an episode.
Speaker A:So I'm gonna keep all that in.
Speaker A:I am gonna pause, and we'll be right back.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's no gap for you, but there's a gap for me.
Speaker A:So, guest, why don't you introduce yourself, and we're gonna talk about the situation that just happened.
Speaker B:Well, it's great to reconnect with you, Chris.
Speaker B:I'm Brett Holland.
Speaker B:I'm the chef at Fox Run Vineyards.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's great to be up here in Rochester.
Speaker A:It's been a hot minute, man.
Speaker A:I think we've run into each other, like, randomly over the last few years, but I haven't had you over since.
Speaker A:And weirdly, I actually had Gene Olczyk from Karma Sauce, which is the last time you were up here to record.
Speaker A:I think it is.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker A:I just had him over, like, a week or so ago.
Speaker A:I think it's gonna come out after this series for previewing the glorious Garlic Festival in scenic Geneva, New York, coming up on the weekend of August 1st.
Speaker B:Yeah, coming up.
Speaker B:And, you know, I'm gonna be doing a cooking demo class, whatever you want to call it, on Sunday.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, looking forward to that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So before we get into all the details, let's talk about the situation that just occurred.
Speaker A:So you asked for something from the fridge.
Speaker A:You asked for an Na beer.
Speaker A:I'll give you a nice Jenny Na.
Speaker A:Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:Enjoying it so far?
Speaker B:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker A:Pretty tasty.
Speaker B:It's actually my first Jenny Na.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, rock solid, like, really good, you know, shout out to.
Speaker A:I think Chris Clemens gave me those.
Speaker A:Or no, actually, my cousin co founder Matt Austin gave me a 12 pack of that, and I, you know, I'll pull out An NA Today, I pull out.
Speaker A:I think this was from an episode I did with Chris Clemens about NA beers.
Speaker A:Pulled out a Bravis blood orange ipa, which I really enjoy.
Speaker A:I pull up to the desk, and everything's fine.
Speaker A:I crack it open.
Speaker A:This thing, half of it comes out as foam, half all over my chair, all over the carpet in the studio.
Speaker A:Thankfully, not all over.
Speaker A:My laptop looked a little bit like.
Speaker B:A volcano from this side.
Speaker A:That was a hell of a thing.
Speaker A:So I am gonna.
Speaker A:Everybody's gonna see a clip of that, because I think I got myself on video being all flustered.
Speaker A:So let's just get the plugs in one more time.
Speaker A:I think it is glorious garlicfest dot com.
Speaker A:I'm just gonna go check that right now and get the hours in.
Speaker A:So, Garlic Festival, August 2nd and 3rd at the Geneva waterfront.
Speaker A:And the hours.
Speaker A:Let me just double check.
Speaker A:Yeah, this is.
Speaker A:This is always the fun part about this, is getting all the hours right.
Speaker A:But it is Gloria garlic festival.
Speaker A:Glorious garlicfestival.com and then parking adjacent.
Speaker A:And I think it's like from 10 to 10 to 6 on Saturday, 10 to 5 on Sunday, so lots of time to go out and enjoy beautiful weather.
Speaker A:Looks like it's gonna be an amazing weekend in the Finger Lakes.
Speaker B:Sure, sure.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:It's the same or more up in Geneva.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was great.
Speaker A:It was a great place to have it, too, at Fox Run, because I talked about that with the organizer, and it really was a special place.
Speaker A:I mean, I went a bunch of times when it was at Fox Run, and having out in the lawn, you know, looking at all the vines and everything, really was a beautiful place for it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, the venue, you know, we get a lot of people that come just.
Speaker B:Just to look around anyway.
Speaker B:I mean, the Finger Lakes, we all know, is just a beautiful place to live in.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And to have something like that kind of festival with the music all day long and.
Speaker B:And the setup and all the garlic and the vendors and, I mean, it was just soup to nuts.
Speaker B:It was garlic.
Speaker B:But, you know, when the weather cooperates around here, it's really awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because I remember you would also have, like, catered stuff on the menu inside, too.
Speaker A:Like, you did some adjustments to the like, to the menu to add more garlic to it.
Speaker B:Almost everything was.
Speaker B:Had garlic.
Speaker B:I mean, we do that anyway.
Speaker B:You know, some people come in and they're like, oh, do you have anything without garlic?
Speaker B:And we're kind of usually like, no, not really.
Speaker A:I mean, do you.
Speaker A:Do you not like flavor?
Speaker A:Are you okay?
Speaker B:But honestly, I mean, we used to rent refrigerators and freezers and things to be able to hold enough food for.
Speaker B:For just the two days on the weekend.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, because there were so many people coming through and it Just the amount of volume that we did.
Speaker B:And, you know, we.
Speaker B:We tried to keep most, you know, if you weren't a vendor, we tried to make sure that, you know, folks were buying our food because we were really putting a lot of effort into it.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And they're doing the same up in Geneva, so it's.
Speaker B:It's a really great festival.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:So let's talk about your.
Speaker A:Let's talk about your demo before we go into general talk, because I know you and I can talk for hours at a time about things.
Speaker A:Let's talk about what the demo is.
Speaker A:What's the demo you're doing, and then we'll talk about what it takes to do those.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, my.
Speaker B:My angle is always to try to pull together as many local things as you can.
Speaker B:You know, whether it's a producer or an ingredient or something, I can, you know, put things together and make and showcase whether.
Speaker B:Whether it's that.
Speaker B:That producer or farmer ingredient.
Speaker B:That's always the angle.
Speaker B:And, you know, this year I just picked up some blue corn and some organic chickpeas from Klaus Martens, you know, and people that know farming and organic farming here in the region.
Speaker B:I mean, Klaus Martins works with people all over the country and, you know, Dan Barber especially, and developing things and providing product for them.
Speaker B:That's just really, really amazing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But he's right down the street from me, and I go right up to his, you know, grain cleaning facility, and you can just pick up any.
Speaker B:Anything.
Speaker A:And it's how awesome.
Speaker B:Crazy what you can get.
Speaker B:So I'm looking at probably doing some kind of tostada either with some hummus with that.
Speaker B:You know, those chickpeas.
Speaker B:Probably pull some pork or something and make some slaw.
Speaker B:I mean, this.
Speaker B:It might be a little more complicated than it sounds.
Speaker A:Doesn't sound like you.
Speaker B:Yeah, but it'll be.
Speaker B:It'll be simple enough where we can.
Speaker B:We can pump out some samples for everyone.
Speaker A:Server pretty quick.
Speaker A:Yeah, So, I mean, that's A great one.
Speaker A:So that's what you're demoing.
Speaker A:So when you're thinking about how to set up for a demo, right, you're thinking about a dish, but you're also thinking about what's interesting to talk about and what are we actually instructing people on during the demo.
Speaker A:Right, because you can do the demo of just cooking the thing, but there's so many different ways to do a food demo.
Speaker A:It can be very instructive.
Speaker A:It can just be, hey, we're doing a show and giving you food to eat.
Speaker A:How do you think about doing a food demo?
Speaker B:I honestly, I think about it in terms of components and, you know, how can I show people, you know, the tricks that are gonna make it look like something they can make at home?
Speaker B:I've been teaching classes in Corning at 171 Cedar Arts for about 26 years now.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:I have a great following.
Speaker B:And that's a lot of times what people say, you know, they'll look at a recipe, I'll demo something.
Speaker B:And at the end of the class, it's kind of like, you know, what I like about your classes is I can watch what you do, and then I know I have the confidence to do it at home.
Speaker B:So a little bit of is simplicity.
Speaker B:A little bit of it is the setup of the actual sort of show, the demonstration, so that it actually does look simple and easy and yeah, you know, not too many ingredients.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:It's kind of one of those things.
Speaker B:I went down to see an Emeril show one time in New York City, and it was just really, really interesting to see the backside.
Speaker B:What happens when the camera's not on?
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:And the number of people that were down there helping him was like, amazing.
Speaker A:Bringing everything out, like everything pre prepped, everything pre cooked.
Speaker B:And you know, when they.
Speaker B:When they go to a commercial break, the band starts playing and, you know, people come out and they talk to Emeril and they set up the next segment.
Speaker B:And that's kind of how I've approached it.
Speaker B:I actually learned a lot.
Speaker B:It was so much fun down there.
Speaker B:And, you know, Emeril's just a real showman.
Speaker A:So it's like, oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:You can just always learn from stuff like that.
Speaker A:So you mentioned you've been doing these classes or demos at Corning for a long time.
Speaker A:Explain what is that and what kind of situation is that?
Speaker A:Is that like a longer course?
Speaker A:Is that.
Speaker B:Well, it's kind of evolved over the years.
Speaker B:I mean, we were originally in a church Basement for a while.
Speaker B:You know, my dear friend Neil o', Donnell, who since passed away, you know, I'm kind of carrying the torch for him.
Speaker B:He was a really, really great man.
Speaker B:And a lot of people just remember him for kind of helping start the program.
Speaker B: me actually, it was Christmas: Speaker B:He just wanted some help with a, with a class that he was doing.
Speaker B:And I came over and did it.
Speaker B:And he said, you know, I'm gonna, I need to bring you in and I'm gonna teach you some things.
Speaker B:And so, you know, I always like to say that I do some of the things that I do because of Neil.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And essentially we were always looking for a different location, but we always kept getting people saying, hey, why don't we just do them at 171 and either continue to do the demonstration cooking or maybe we could do Hands on somehow.
Speaker B:And we did, right before COVID we had it all set up to do Hands on.
Speaker B:And we did one class that was hands On.
Speaker B:And I tell you, people were just enthralled.
Speaker A:Oh yeah.
Speaker B:So much more fun.
Speaker B:You know, not that our classes weren't fun when they're just demonstration, but, you know, sitting and watching and taking notes and getting a tasting, you know, every half hour or so is, Is fun.
Speaker B:But getting your hands dirty and having somebody come around and you're chopping all your things and tasting stuff as it's.
Speaker A:Rolling and people are laughing at mistakes and you're just having a good time, like doing something that should be fun, should be communal, it shouldn't be stressful.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker A:For most things.
Speaker A:I mean, sometimes stress is inevitable, but the idea is that it should be, should be a good time with, with friends and family, just doing something you enjoy doing.
Speaker B:Right, Right.
Speaker B:And so, you know, more recently in the last couple of years, I just, I really felt strongly about, like having some of the wineries get connected into what I'm doing over there because I do a lot of fundraising for them with some various things that Sherry and I do at our house.
Speaker B:We do a great grape stomping demonstration where we pick grapes and we actually make wine with a group.
Speaker B:And, you know, it's part of our fundraising effort.
Speaker B:But, you know, doing the actual classes, I just really felt like I wanted to bring in some of the wineries and some of my friends that own wineries and winemakers and introduce them over there to the people in Corning.
Speaker B:And so we've been doing these 90 minute classes, which, you know, are about half the old classes used to Be about three hours.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker B:So they were long classes and lots of recipes.
Speaker B:And I think the format we're doing now is really great because it's generally three recipes, three wines.
Speaker B:So we bring three different wines, whether it's Fox Run wines or Anthony Road wines or Herman J. Wiemer wines.
Speaker B:It's just a lot of fun.
Speaker B:People are loving the wine tasting part, and I think it's really beneficial for the wineries.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think it's also, like, you get a chance to really.
Speaker A:I think sometimes there's this mystical, you know, big, you know, there's this wall of information that people feel like they have to get over to enjoy wine.
Speaker A:And I think those kind of situations are great.
Speaker A:So people don't feel.
Speaker A:They don't feel intimidated by it because, like, hey, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm giving you this.
Speaker A:Hey, you don't have to think about it.
Speaker A:You don't have to pick.
Speaker A:You get to just be given something that's going to work with this.
Speaker A:It's not too serious.
Speaker A:You know, it's for everybody.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Wine's for everybody, and it should be enjoyed.
Speaker A:And that's.
Speaker A:That's a great way of doing it without the pressure.
Speaker A:In many ways of.
Speaker A:I think this.
Speaker A:People feel judged sometimes when they go to a restaurant, they don't know how to order.
Speaker A:They don't know the words to describe what they like.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker A:And those kind of situations sometimes gives them that information without you saying, you should like this.
Speaker A:Just like, hey, try it.
Speaker A:See what you like, See what you think.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And that's the beauty of the shorter classes, too.
Speaker B:You know, we have a lot of time to sit around at the end and, you know, when we're on schedule, if we don't have too many.
Speaker B:Too many questions or.
Speaker B:I'm famous for telling long stories, so I'll try not to do that here today, but you never know.
Speaker A:So I love when you.
Speaker A:So you mentioned, you know, the farmer and you mentioned those two ingredients, but I love that those are the first two ingredients you mentioned.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're not mentioning.
Speaker A:You're not mentioning, like, oh, yeah, we'll figure out what else goes on there.
Speaker A:But those are the basis.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:You know, great blue corn and your organic chickpeas.
Speaker A:So have you used some of that local, like, corn, like the blue corn and other things before?
Speaker B:Actually, the blue corn is something new that I have never seen.
Speaker A:Oh, exciting.
Speaker B:I just picked up the bags the other day.
Speaker B:They're actually.
Speaker B:In fact, they're in the back of my car.
Speaker B:Nice and if.
Speaker B:If you want some chickpeas, I'll happily crack open the bag and scoop some out for you because they make.
Speaker B:It just makes amazing.
Speaker B:The beans are so much smaller than the ones in the store, and I think they're just packed full of flavor.
Speaker A:Are they thicker skin on versions, too?
Speaker B:No, they're.
Speaker B:They're just.
Speaker B:I can't wait to show you.
Speaker A:I'm excited to take.
Speaker A:I'm excited to look at them because I've cooked.
Speaker A:I've cooked a decent amount of dried chickpeas, actually.
Speaker A:The process is very easy, especially if you have a pressure cooker.
Speaker A:I mean, it's like basically falling off a log cooking those in a pressure cooker.
Speaker A:But often I'll go to, like, the Indian grocery store and I'll buy some of them that are smaller, but they'll be like the thicker skin versions, like, thicker red skins on them.
Speaker A:I actually really like the texture of them, but it's not the same as what people.
Speaker A:You know, the chickpeas people are used to coming out of, you know, coming out of a can or what most people see, like, the stuff you get that are more specifically grown for flavor first, not just, like, consistency.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Like, they're a very different product.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Very, very different.
Speaker B:And, you know, I.
Speaker B:Whatever I can buy from them.
Speaker B:I mean, they have a ton of beans.
Speaker B:So seneca green and bean.com is their.
Speaker B:Their website.
Speaker B:And, you know, you can click on there and you can, you know, shop through what they have available.
Speaker B:You know, they even processed some sugar, I think, for someone in Paraguay.
Speaker B:I think I quote me on that one.
Speaker B:But you can look it up.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's just a treat to be able to have someone in your backyard like that.
Speaker B:You know, there's a lot of ingredients.
Speaker B:I think I was.
Speaker B: d at the Jenny can, you know,: Speaker B:And, you know, they're the world's largest buckwheat producer, you know, but they also do all kinds of other grains.
Speaker B:They make my favorite pastry flour.
Speaker B:It's called Bessie.
Speaker B:It actually has a name, Fun, which is kind of cool.
Speaker B:I love that, you know, George Washington was president back then.
Speaker B:So it's, you know, it's kind of like this legacy ingredient, and it's just really cool to be able to use stuff like that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Um, and I'm kind of intrigued.
Speaker A:So now that we're talking, let's, let's talk about blue corn for a second.
Speaker A:So you haven't used it before.
Speaker A:Have you done a lot of, you know, dried, you know, whole grain corn and processing before?
Speaker B:No, actually, it's funny you mentioned that because we were just doing paella over at Rio Tamatlan in Canandaigua, and Raphael, the chef there, Raf, as everyone calls him, he, he just told me that he's got this two, I think two big grain mills upstairs at Rio.
Speaker B:And when I told him I had the blue corn, I, I was just like, yeah, man, I'll bring you some over and we can make tortillas and I'll be your assistant.
Speaker B:You know, I've not made a ton of tortillas in my life, but, you know, in Arizona, got to, got to see a little bit of that because.
Speaker A:There'S a whole process.
Speaker B:Oh, there is, sure.
Speaker A:So, I mean, this is, and I'm intrigued, so I'm let, let's just dive into the details.
Speaker A:Have you thought about, are you going to nationalize all the corn?
Speaker A:So you're, have you decided how you're going to do that or if you're going to mess around with it?
Speaker B:Not really.
Speaker B:That's what I was telling Sherry on the way up here.
Speaker B:You know, she's like, do you know what you're doing yet?
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, I kind of have an idea, but, you know, I'm gonna have to think about it this week.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker A:Where are you gonna buy your food grade live?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We just had like a three week run of, you know, really busy at Fox Run, really busy at Tabora, and you know, we did some side parties for folks down on some lake like properties and just didn't really have much bandwidth to think about a lot of stuff.
Speaker B:So at least we came, we came with the idea and we'll deliver it and figure out what we're going to do this week.
Speaker A:Sorry, I said, I said lie.
Speaker A:I meant lime.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:So alkaline solution, usually with lime and then obviously grinding and turning it in there.
Speaker A:But having access to like a good grinder meant for that will make a huge difference.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:I was actually making, I was looking them up because I don't have, have one personally.
Speaker B:And I think we're probably going to try to make a drive over to Rio and Yeah, you see, see what we can do.
Speaker A:A little bit of a trade.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Nothing wrong with that for sure because that's one of those, like one of those amazing things that was discovered.
Speaker A:You Know that that process was.
Speaker A:They've been doing that for hundreds of years, and mostly because, you know, they found that it was just useful one, for flavor and two, for.
Speaker A:For the health benefits of actually, you know, turning it into something that's more digestible and more usable and all those things, but also makes these amazing textures, when you get it right, makes these pliable, lightly bouncy things in a way that.
Speaker A:Oh, we took something that would just be ground into, like, polenta, which, by the way, for everybody.
Speaker A:That's all polenta is, by the way.
Speaker A:It's just ground corn into certain size pieces.
Speaker B:Right, right, right.
Speaker A:But with that process, you turn to something completely different.
Speaker A:But that's the amazing thing about technique and knowledge and being able to, you know, eventually show people that, hey, the same thing that can be, you know, you know, can be corn syrup, it can be polenta, and it can be like these amazing flour products that turn into bouncy tortillas or crispy tostadas.
Speaker B:Yeah, sure.
Speaker A:All at the same time.
Speaker B:The beauty of food science, you know, they've.
Speaker B:They've.
Speaker B:We've come a long way with a lot of things.
Speaker B:You know, we're not just mushing up corn anymore to make porridge.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, we can.
Speaker A:And maybe we should.
Speaker A:Yeah, Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker A:So we talked about the demo.
Speaker A:So you're doing.
Speaker A:It's instructive.
Speaker A:People are getting samples.
Speaker A:They're going to come out and have a great time.
Speaker A:So what I kind of want to go into is.
Speaker A:So last time we were talking, so still cooking a Fox Run?
Speaker A:Still running the kitchen there.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Now that place is so consistently busy, especially with the volume of people coming through during the, you know, during prime time during the season.
Speaker A:How many days a week is Fox Run, like, busy busy, that you're just, like, cranking food out all day.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:I mean, you know, if you think about from Memorial Day weekend through Labor Day and, you know, into September and mid October, it's almost every day.
Speaker B:And, you know, a lot of it is weather dependent.
Speaker B:You know, the one thing around here is, you know, when it downpours, the problem for, you know, some smaller wineries that don't have a lot of space or, you know, adjacent areas where you can accommodate people.
Speaker B:You know, if it's.
Speaker B:If it's super sunny out and you get like a really crazy afternoon, you know, rainstorm or something like that, they don't have anywhere for people to go.
Speaker B:The cool thing about Fox Run is we have a lot of space outdoors, but we Also have some sneaky little spaces where we can put people, you know, inside.
Speaker B:And, you know, that we call it the barrel room.
Speaker B:It's where they used to make all the wine when they first opened.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a decent space where we can fit probably 50 people.
Speaker B:So, you know, that makes a huge difference for us.
Speaker B:And the winery itself is pretty big.
Speaker B:And, you know, we've been around for.
Speaker B:This is our 35th year, so we're celebrating our 35th anniversary.
Speaker B:We had a big party in the spring.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker B:Scott loves to celebrate that.
Speaker B:And it's just been a.
Speaker B:It's been a good run there for them, and, you know, no pun intended.
Speaker A:Oh, I laughed too much on that one, man.
Speaker A:So, you know, in the busy season.
Speaker A:And what I'm kind of intrigued about is.
Speaker A:So I'm.
Speaker A:I'm assuming that, like, with that kind of volume one, you need to be focusing on consistency all the time for that volume.
Speaker A:But as you've been there, like, how long have you been there now?
Speaker A:It's been a while.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So it's 11 years.
Speaker A:11 years.
Speaker B:Before that, I was doing some smaller events.
Speaker B:You know, it was.
Speaker B:It was a time when I was probably doing events for three or four other wineries at the same time.
Speaker B:And occasionally I still do that, you know, for our kind of friends.
Speaker A:And so you mentioned Tabora.
Speaker A:I don't know that place.
Speaker B:So Tabora Farm and Winery opened about seven or eight years ago.
Speaker B:Yeah, like eight years ago.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's a couple that moved up from Philadelphia.
Speaker B:They actually had a Tabora farm, an orchard down in Philly in Bucks County.
Speaker A:Oh, I did go in there.
Speaker B:I probably look that up and, you know, it's.
Speaker A:I know where Bucks county is.
Speaker A:There's a curling club there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:On occasion, there's a little bit of confusion because of the name being so similar and unique, but great style.
Speaker B:And, you know, Jane Atherton is originally from South Africa, so she's got that great British accent that people are attracted to, and she.
Speaker B:You know, and they have that cafe.
Speaker A:And that's what I was.
Speaker A:That's where I went in, for example.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:And great space, great design, great food, you know, and it's.
Speaker B:You know, when you figure out what people want on the wine trail, they gravitate towards it and they start talking about it, and that's kind of what they've done.
Speaker B:You know, they've only been around for eight years.
Speaker B:And, you know, you go down there on a Saturday, and you're gonna wait in line for a Little bit, yeah.
Speaker A:And, you know, that menu is very targeted.
Speaker A:It's targeted to.
Speaker A:This is what people.
Speaker A:This is what people generally want on the wine thing.
Speaker A:And they want to be able to, you know, pull off and have something that is gonna satisfy them and is.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's not reaching the furthest in what it is, but it is doing something that people want.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They want.
Speaker A:They want their grilled sandwiches, they want this, they want that, and it's.
Speaker A:It's there for them.
Speaker A:And lots of snacks.
Speaker A:Like, while you're driving around, you need your snacks.
Speaker A:Like, you can go get all that stuff right there.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Which is really nice, you know, and.
Speaker B:There'S not that many restaurants actually on the wine trail.
Speaker A:There really isn't, especially on the west side.
Speaker A:I mean, there's like, it's up to the north, then there's the weanery and that place and you.
Speaker A:And that's really.
Speaker A:That's really it about it.
Speaker A:Until you get to the bottom of the lake.
Speaker A:I think that really is about it.
Speaker B:Down in Watkins Glen.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:That is a long distance and a lot of wine tasting if that's all you have and you're not prepped ahead of time.
Speaker B:And the catch 22 is, you know, it's.
Speaker B:Everyone's driving 55, 65 miles an hour.
Speaker B:And, you know, sometimes it's hard to get people to stop.
Speaker B:But, you know, the visibility that we have at Fox Run with our, you know, really unique gate built by Sam Kastner, you know, the local metal artist.
Speaker B:He's done a number of, you know, signs and gates and things like that.
Speaker A:And it's a beautiful.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's stunning.
Speaker B:And it does.
Speaker B:It actually stops people.
Speaker B:And they'll turn around and come back for sure.
Speaker B:But, you know, we've got great marketing.
Speaker B:You know, Garrison Cool is our marketing guy.
Speaker B:And, you know, he's young, he's connected and plugged in, and he gets the people to come, which is cool.
Speaker B:And, you know, not just for the winery, but for events, for the cafe.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Always trying to, you know, scratch everything and get everybody to come.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I think that's also.
Speaker A:It's one of those things that's hard to underestimate how important it is nowadays that having somebody that is paying attention to this is what people are looking for.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And it is marketing what has been a quality thing.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:A good cafe where you can go in and get food that is local, is made.
Speaker A:Well, it's made with intention, and it's made to be delicious.
Speaker A:And Stuff you can have alongside wine at a place and you have affordable, high quality wines at the same place.
Speaker A:And you can bring big groups and you can go to individuals and it's just a place that with the right attention, you should be bringing in more people with that.
Speaker A:It should be a standard stop on the side of the wake.
Speaker A:But the marketing, especially as you have more people who don't know.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because it's.
Speaker A:People are new, people are new to wine, people are new to the finger wakes.
Speaker A:And even though we all, I think those of us who appreciate the Finger Lakes for what they are and know how amazing it is, there's still, there's still way more people that don't spend time driving down and enjoying it from Rochester when we have a world class wine region within one hour of your door.
Speaker A:And it's still amazing to me how few people understand how good everything is.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's, we get people in the winery every day and it's that, wow, we never realized this was here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What are you looking at?
Speaker B:What are you paying attention to?
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:I think it's.
Speaker A:And I think that's where the marketing comes in too, is it's reaching people where they are and not hoping that they're going to understand the message.
Speaker A:You know, different messages hit different people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I'm not, I'm not here to shame people for not going for me.
Speaker A:I always want to make it sound the most enticing I can, but I'm a nerd first.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:I want to talk about, hey, you can go get amazing quality things at a price that beats almost anywhere, both in the, like in the world in many ways.
Speaker A:Price wise to quality wise.
Speaker A:It's one of the best wine regions in the world.
Speaker A:And I want people to really feel that and appreciate that and love it deeply like I do.
Speaker A:But at the same time, that's not what everybody wants.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Not everybody wants to like go nerd out all day.
Speaker A:Some people want to have their party and take their bus and go down and enjoy places.
Speaker A:But I'm always hoping that they just find that one thing that grabs them in a way they didn't expect, that they find the one thing that makes them excited to come back, that it sparks something in their head like, oh, wow, that was awesome.
Speaker A:And not just the day, but that one sandwich they had or that one cheese they had or the pairing they had like at Fox Run makes them say, God, you know what, I gotta come back and have that again.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Or something else.
Speaker B:I mean, the one thing that we.
Speaker B:We do a lot of is that we're just constantly looking for new products, constantly looking for new producers and seeing what they have and how it matches up with our wines.
Speaker B:And we spend a lot of time in the early part of the winter and then right before spring before we open up, just tasting things and tasting the new wines, tank sampling.
Speaker B:And, you know, we have so many things that we offer people.
Speaker B:You know, we're not just pouring what's in the bottle.
Speaker B:There are a lot of special things that we do on tours, a lot of special things that we do with events and just constantly trying to highlight new stuff, new people.
Speaker B:I just drove today almost to Canandaigua to a new guy that's doing some hydroponic lettuce.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:You know, but he's also growing tilapia in the same sort of operation.
Speaker B:And it was just really interesting to see.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Where did this come from?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Circular aquaculture.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I always found that fascinating and I think in the best possible way, if that's what you're doing, like, what a great opportunity to make a more durable system for something that you created because you're feeding the fish and the fish are feeding the plants and you get better.
Speaker A:You get better hydroponic things that way, too.
Speaker B:Sure, sure.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Misty Meadows Farm.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Very cool.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker A:So I think we're going to do.
Speaker A:We're going to take a break.
Speaker A:We're going to come back and talk more about some of the stuff you've been testing recently, some of the things you want to highlight, talk about changes to the menu.
Speaker A:And we'll be right back.
Speaker A:And we're back with the second half hour discussion with Brad Howland from Fox 1R Fox Run Winery.
Speaker A:I'm not drinking NA anymore, everybody, so.
Speaker A:And doing a demo at the Glorious Garlic Festival, glorious garlicfestival.com happening at the Geneva Lakefront on August 2nd and 3rd this following Saturday and Sunday.
Speaker A:So check out Brud's demo on Sunday.
Speaker A:Taste some cool blue corn.
Speaker A:We'll see how it turns out.
Speaker A:But I kind of want to talk about.
Speaker A:So been there for a long time.
Speaker A:I kind of want to talk about some of the other stuff you've tried recently or stuff you've been like, evolving the menu towards.
Speaker A:Because I know, you know, it's a menu that's supposed to be approachable for people.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Supposed to be focusing on local.
Speaker A:Supposed to be approachable.
Speaker A:But what are the kind of things you've been tasting that have informed the way you're changing the Menu over the last, you know, couple years.
Speaker B:You know, when I first started there, they, they didn't really want to have sandwiches on the menu.
Speaker B:They didn't want to be known as a sandwich place.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So they, they basically took them all off and I was kind of like, well, maybe you should have like one sandwich, you know, and everybody kind of agreed.
Speaker B:All right, well, we'll do a sandwich.
Speaker B:And I was like, you know, just a good old fashioned turkey club is something that like so many people like, you know, and it doesn't have to be on three slices of bread and yeah, all that, you know, yada, yada, yada.
Speaker B:So we found a great, we found a great bun maker here in Rochester.
Speaker B:Amazing grains.
Speaker B:And, you know, Brandon ships us.
Speaker B:Are they, they used to actually call them, I think, fox buns.
Speaker B:Do they really?
Speaker B:We asked them to do a certain kind of bun with a certain, you know, two kinds of seeds, you know, poppy seeds and sesame seeds.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And I can't remember the last time he called them fox buns.
Speaker B:But, you know, we, he's going to laugh when he hears that.
Speaker A:That's pretty good.
Speaker B:But, you know, we, we give them a lot of credit for that in terms of just.
Speaker B:People love the buns.
Speaker B:And we toast every single bun that we make a sandwich with.
Speaker B:We, we put a little garlic butter on it, we put it in the oven, it gets all toasty and super soft and it makes the best sandwich.
Speaker A:So let's talk about the structure.
Speaker A:So you talked about the seeds, right.
Speaker A:And you're talking about the process, right?
Speaker A:So the right toasting, making sure you get that textural contrast inside, which I'm a wildly huge advocate for, especially when you put sauces on it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It doesn't get mushy, that little layer and you get the textural and flavor add.
Speaker A:But let's talk about the style of bunnet is.
Speaker A:So is this enriched?
Speaker A:Is it more pillowy?
Speaker A:Does it have more structure on the outside?
Speaker A:When you were thinking about this, did they already have it or is it one that you worked with them to dial in?
Speaker B:It was actually one that I was making.
Speaker A:Oh, really?
Speaker B:And I think it's a version of that.
Speaker B:It's not exact.
Speaker B:And, you know, being a baker myself, and you know, Brandon's awesome over there.
Speaker B:I love going to that place.
Speaker B:He's such a character.
Speaker B:He.
Speaker B:I think it's a version of their brioche bun, you know.
Speaker B:Okay, so it's, it's light, it's kind.
Speaker A:Of almost buttery already, so it's mildly enriched.
Speaker A:So it's, it's got that texture, it's got a little bit of chew.
Speaker A:But everything else is about just like that pleasant experience.
Speaker B:Crispy on the top.
Speaker B:When you brown it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it just really makes an ideal, like sandwich, you know, base, foundation and, you know, a club is easy.
Speaker B:Lettuce, tomato.
Speaker B:You can put some sprouts on there if you want.
Speaker B:You know, really good bacon.
Speaker B:Thick cut bacon from Bostrom Farms.
Speaker B:And then, you know, it's just some sliced smoked turkey.
Speaker B:And we make an aioli, you know, because it's not just mayonnaise.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:It gives it a lot of flavor.
Speaker B:And we roast garlic and we have a whole process where we roast garlic with.
Speaker B:We do bulbs, we do the plain.
Speaker B:You know, sometimes we'll just buy, you know, cleaned up cloves and do it that way.
Speaker B:But it's kind of a process where we oil them.
Speaker B:We have a little bit of olive oil.
Speaker B:Sometimes we'll put the squash seed oil from Stony Brook, if we're looking for a real nutty flavor and shout out to that place.
Speaker A:I mean, those, those, those seeds are so good.
Speaker B:Yeah, Their stuff's amazing too.
Speaker B:And I love to use their, their oil in dressings because it's so flavorful.
Speaker A:And you don't need a lot.
Speaker A:Like, you can use vegetable for a lot of the base and use some of that.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker A:Because using just that would be like almost overwhelming.
Speaker B:It's super intense, for sure.
Speaker B:And I've done it before, but, you know, sometimes we'll, we'll add some stuff and you know, we like to use Pat Cosimano stuff too.
Speaker B:He's, you know, he's always in the market, but, you know, he comes to our place and he just sells, you know, tons and tons and tons, like thousands of dollars worth of olive oil in just an afternoon.
Speaker A:It's crazy.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker B:So, you know, we put together this aioli and we roast the garlic with, you know, bit of oil, a little bit of dry thyme or fresh thyme if we have it, a little bit of salt, pepper.
Speaker B:And we put it in the oven and we get them kind of browned and we, we kind of toss them a little bit like popcorn almost.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And get them sort of browning up.
Speaker B:And then we pour a bunch of Riesling, semi dry Riesling over the top and then we wrap it with foil and let it sit in the oven another maybe 20 minutes or so.
Speaker B:So it gets really, really soft but nice and brown.
Speaker B:And you just get some really amazing dark Flavor out of that gives the aioli a little bit of color.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, we put a little bit of raw garlic in there with it, so you get a little.
Speaker B:I think it's important.
Speaker A:I think that's an important thing that is wildly underused, and I think that's, you know, if you're paying attention to, you know, cooking techniques from around the world, that is wildly common in, like, Chinese cooking.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Especially, you know, just adding that little bit of raw garlic right at the end of the cooking process.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Take that.
Speaker A:That brightness.
Speaker A:Like you want that little bit of.
Speaker A:That little bit of kick of the freshness, or else it can be delicious.
Speaker A:But it's all, like, mid.
Speaker A:Like mid, mid.
Speaker A:Low tones.
Speaker A:Like, that little bit of brightness from that sharpness really makes a huge difference in the experience.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's so much else on the sandwich.
Speaker B:You know, you're.
Speaker B:You're cutting through, like, rich, you know, fatty bacon.
Speaker B:So you do need some.
Speaker B:Some.
Speaker B:Some oomph to it, which is.
Speaker B:Which is cool.
Speaker B:And I can't tell you how many people just.
Speaker B:They just love that sandwich because it's so simple.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It's really been.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:It took off like crazy.
Speaker A:But also, what an opportunity to, like, for something that.
Speaker A:Almost everybody has had that sandwich.
Speaker A:They haven't had that sandwich, but they've had.
Speaker A:They've had a turkey club.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Almost everybody's had it.
Speaker A:But what an opportunity to.
Speaker A:When you're talking about all the steps that go into that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So we talked about basically every ingredient that goes into that, like, what opportunity for somebody to say, oh, that's the best one of these I've ever had.
Speaker A:But that's because every step was thought through.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're not just accident.
Speaker A:You don't accidentally make that.
Speaker B:Definitely not.
Speaker A:It would be very hard to accidentally make something with that much going on in it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And again, I go back to that.
Speaker B:You know, you're always thinking about all the components, and, you know, each component is important.
Speaker B:You know, it's like the weak link in a chain.
Speaker B:One weak thing in a dish, and it's kind of like that can crash it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Because you can.
Speaker A:You'll serve it in the winter, and you'll use the best tomatoes you can.
Speaker A:But you know that serving it in, you know, July with fresh tomatoes is, you know, fresh, local tomatoes is going to be a wildly different sandwich than it is in January.
Speaker B:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker A:And it makes.
Speaker A:Makes such a big difference.
Speaker A:But you know that right now, you season them you're putting them on there, like, ooh, how many people are gonna be thinking about the tomato versus.
Speaker A:Versus the turkey on this?
Speaker B:Right, yeah.
Speaker B:And actually we added a new sandwich this year, so we added another sandwich.
Speaker B:You know, we were thinking about doing some hoagies, you know, some Philly style hoagies or, you know, some other version of a sub which kind of got put on the back burner.
Speaker B:We did them for a special event, which was a lot of fun for the super bowl, actually.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, that would be a good time.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But we went ahead and threw something out there for the vegetarians.
Speaker B:We were using portobello mushrooms, and we would marinate them in Pat's balsamic vinegar and olive oil and garlic.
Speaker B:And I would make a little bit of the dressing with the squash seed oil.
Speaker B:These are all ingredients that I love to use.
Speaker B:And the nuttiness of that oil in combination with the mushrooms.
Speaker B:And then they would literally just roast, like, a whole mushroom in the oven, and it just substituted for the meat part on the club.
Speaker B:And some people would order that one and they'd want the bacon on it.
Speaker B:So, you know, it wasn't exclusively for vegetarians.
Speaker B:And so we decided to switch it up this year.
Speaker B:We'd been doing that one for probably five years.
Speaker B:So we went.
Speaker B:Went with the caprese kind of style, like eggplant caprese.
Speaker B:So we now we slice and roast eggplant.
Speaker B:We get fresh mozzarella.
Speaker B:The tomatoes, when they're amazing, it just, like, just makes a sandwich like that, and we kind of do it a little bit the same.
Speaker B:And so for the vegan folks, we just take off the cheese, we put a little bit of roasted red pepper tapenade with lots of roasted peppers and, you know, some kalaman olives.
Speaker B:And, you know, you get a lot of flavor out of that.
Speaker B:Just instead of.
Speaker B:Instead of using something like aioli.
Speaker A:Sounds like I know what my next stop is on the road, because that's.
Speaker A:I eat that way, like, 98% of the time.
Speaker A:And, like, what.
Speaker A:What a.
Speaker A:What a nice.
Speaker A:What a nice thing, though, to be able to offer something with that much flavor.
Speaker A:Like, and it's not.
Speaker A:It's not purely about, like, about, like, accessibility.
Speaker A:It's not just saying, hey, this is.
Speaker A:This is your thing.
Speaker A:It's not the token.
Speaker A:Like, oh, now for you people, you get red sauce pasta with.
Speaker A:With, you know, badly steamed vegetables in it.
Speaker A:And, like, that's good enough for you people.
Speaker B:Yeah, right.
Speaker A:Like, it's like, hey, why not generate great flavor?
Speaker A:Like, why not Offer something that is like a better experience because, like, that's, I don't know, that's just one, it's respectful.
Speaker A:And two, like, why not maximize deliciousness while you're making something?
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I wouldn't have gotten into cooking unless I liked doing that.
Speaker B:You know, it is a, it is a fun process to kind of, you know, think about ingredients and what can I do with them?
Speaker B:How can I, how can I pull out the best, you know, qualities of whatever it is I'm using, you know, and, and, and it's just, it's one of the reasons why it's so much fun to work at Fox Run because they, they appreciate that and, and they love that, that process of trial and error and testing everything out so that we know that it works.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So let's talk about some of the other products.
Speaker A:So you mentioned that you've had some stuff you've tried over the last, like, you know, last season or something.
Speaker A:That was something that was inspiring you.
Speaker A:So has there been any, like, other sources of products that have been like, oh, this is something I want to mess around with more?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, a couple of years ago, maybe more than a couple of years ago, there was Hudson Valley Fisheries out south of Albany and Hudson in New York.
Speaker B:You know, they fish is kind of one of my things.
Speaker B:I mean, I grew up eating a lot of fish and shellfish as a kid and it is kind of one of the things I just love to cook and getting fresh fish.
Speaker B:I mean, I love Wegmans and they have a great seafood program.
Speaker B:But you know, Hudson Valley, they, they'll, you know, I can, I can get fish two days out of the water from them, you know.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker B:Like, that's kind of hard pressed unless you're out on the ocean and you know, at one of the markets in one of the big cities, New York, Boston, Philly, something like that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:The big, like big fish depots.
Speaker B:Se.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, all those places.
Speaker B:Yeah, you can get really super awesome fish, but you know, it's still coming off a boat that's been out for a couple of weeks maybe.
Speaker B:And this is, this is really, really amazing stuff.
Speaker B:And trout, you know, steelhead trout is a little different.
Speaker B:You know, I've, I've had a lot of people say, oh, no, that's just, that's salmon, isn't it?
Speaker B:Isn't that salmon?
Speaker B:I mean, it looks just like salmon.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, so, all right, let's, let's, let's do it.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So I was debating if we should get into fish taxonomy.
Speaker A:And I think we're going to talk.
Speaker A:Let's talk fish taxonomy for a second.
Speaker A:So one, they're not wrong.
Speaker A:So steelhead trout are.
Speaker A:Trout isn't like an actual category.
Speaker A:Trout is like something that was built as a structure to classify a group of fish together, but it doesn't.
Speaker A:It's not like taxonom taxonomy.
Speaker A:Like, trout isn't like a separate designation.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:So there's the salmonoid trout, and then the other side of it that are not salmonoid trout.
Speaker A:And like, steelhead are most identifiably salmonoid trouts because of the color and flavor.
Speaker A:But other ones are definitively not.
Speaker A:I think some of them are.
Speaker A:Some of them are a variation.
Speaker A:Like, it's just a different angle.
Speaker A:Because really, they're mostly salmonoid fish.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:If I remember correctly, I mean, even though even the breakdown, breaking down the actual whole fish, you know, I mean, the flesh itself, it literally looks like salmon.
Speaker B:But, you know, there are so many things about the fish that doesn't smell like salmon, and it definitely.
Speaker B:It doesn't have the same texture as salmon, for sure.
Speaker B:Cooked.
Speaker B:And the flavor and aroma, to me, are the biggest difference.
Speaker B:And I think it's so much milder.
Speaker B:It's for.
Speaker B:For people that are kind of about fish, I always say, you know, well, why you should try this trout, because it's.
Speaker B:It's so much milder.
Speaker B:And, you know, we do a lot of curing, and I like both hot smoking and cold smoking.
Speaker B:And, you know, the textures are just very, very different.
Speaker B:We do a little bit of gravlocks.
Speaker B:We sold so much gravlocks with the.
Speaker B:With the steelhead trout on Mother's Day.
Speaker A:It was crazy talk about the process in making that.
Speaker A:So what.
Speaker A:It's amazing process.
Speaker A:So this has roots in Nordic culture, if I remember correctly.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, is gravlox is like.
Speaker A:Was Nordic originally.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's definitely a Scandinavian thing.
Speaker B:But, you know, people have been, you know, preserving fish and meat with salt for, you know, thousand years.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Or longer.
Speaker B:And, you know, the basic idea is that your.
Speaker B:The salt is drawing out enough moisture to preserve the fish.
Speaker B:And, you know, back before refrigeration, it was so that you could actually store the fish and, you know, not have it make you really sick.
Speaker A:Yeah, it makes a big difference, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, it makes a big difference.
Speaker B:But, you know, there's a fine line in, you know, in terms of food science and.
Speaker B:And then palatability of things that, you know, you know, like the.
Speaker B:The salt cod that The Italians use, you know, that you have to literally rinse the salt out.
Speaker B:And, you know, with Gravlox, the process is you want to put just enough salt so that it.
Speaker B:Over the course of three or four days, it actually makes its way in, but keeps the texture of the fish so that you can slice it paper thin, but also does its job to preserve the fish and then, you know, adding the flavor the way I was trained to make it.
Speaker B:You know, the three days after the initial salting where you're weighting the fish.
Speaker B:And I just love the idea of the fresh herbs.
Speaker B:You know, maybe a little bit of cracked black pepper.
Speaker B:You know, the Scandinavians will put like, aquavit, but we do Riesling.
Speaker B:I've done port before.
Speaker A:Oh, that would make an amazing with.
Speaker B:With what you do and the products that you have at your fingertips, which, for me, you know, we gotta always have tons of Chardonnay and, you know, all the different wines that we have.
Speaker A:I mean, that would work great.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker A:And it's not like you're soaking in it.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're brushing it on to try to add that flavor while it's also, you know, you can.
Speaker A:While it's being salted in the fridge, like it's, you know, going on and it's absorbing it in.
Speaker A:Sometimes it helps the herbs bring the stuff out, too.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:And it's contributing to some flavor.
Speaker B:You know, and the big thing years ago is like layering.
Speaker B:You know, you're.
Speaker B:You're basically just adding a layer of flavor and it's.
Speaker B:It's perceivable for sure.
Speaker B:But, you know, it's.
Speaker B:It's all about flavor and texture and how people, you know, fish is not meant to be fishy.
Speaker B:So, you know, when you get something that's like super, super fresh, you know, a couple days out of the water, it literally has no, you know, the salmon, really fresh salmon, you know, it smells a lot like cucumber.
Speaker B:And when you point that out to people, they're like, oh, yeah, you know, you're right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And especially ones that are wild and they're eating just, you know, eating things and moving around more.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:You're eating more active things.
Speaker A:And, yeah, it's going to taste a little more.
Speaker A:It's a little stronger because they're working.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's just like any animal that is, you know, not a working or not having the ability to move around and work, like, you're going to get a softer, sweeter flavor.
Speaker A:But, you know, it's not.
Speaker A:It's not the Same.
Speaker A:You're not getting that punch of beautiful flavor.
Speaker A:And then, yeah, if you want more intense fish, like, that's where you go for.
Speaker A:You go for your mackerel, right?
Speaker A:You're getting those more intense flavors.
Speaker A:But some people love that.
Speaker A:My wife loves that.
Speaker A:Like, Carrie's a huge fan of mackerel.
Speaker A:And especially, like having it at, like a really nice sushi place where they're, you know, you might might treat it, you might smoke it, you might.
Speaker A:You might, you know, fire it to make this, you know, amazing fish more balanced and doing that.
Speaker A:But it's all about technique, right?
Speaker A:We're talking about technique for a reason.
Speaker A:And you created something that people love, right?
Speaker A:You created a product through the work that you say you just sell a ton of and what a great thing that you can do the work and people are appreciating it.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's a great thing to be a chef.
Speaker B:You know, it's kind of been my life's work and I'm still loving it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So right now.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So we talked about a lot of the menu, about some recent products.
Speaker A:Is there anything else that's like, that you've seen recently that's been inspiring you that whether it be a media thing or something else you've run into that you're just, you've just got sitting in the back of your head that you're not sure what to do with yet.
Speaker B:You know, it's the inspiration.
Speaker B:You know, it comes from everywhere.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Whether it's a picture you see, you can be reading an article and just, you know, you're just a sentence could be in there and describing something.
Speaker B:It couldn't even, it doesn't even have to be a food article necessarily.
Speaker B:And it gets you thinking, like, gets the wheel turning about, like, maybe I should look into trying to do that.
Speaker B:And, you know, cooking technique wise, you know, there's actually not that many techniques in terms of, if you actually think about cooking and training people how to actually cook, you know, most of.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Most of the.
Speaker B:In home cooking.
Speaker B:I had a friend who worked for World Kitchen, and in fact, I just saw his son today.
Speaker B:Neil Hart is the guy's name.
Speaker A:Amazing organization.
Speaker A:World Central Kitchen.
Speaker B:No, not World Central Kitchen.
Speaker B:World Kitchen.
Speaker B:It used to be a consumer products company.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And you know, he.
Speaker B:Where was I going with that?
Speaker A:No, it's okay.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, so, yeah, so you're mentioning, you know, you're.
Speaker A:You talked to somebody, you were talking about inspiration, and you mentioned you ran into somebody from World Kitchen.
Speaker A:About something, maybe that's okay.
Speaker A:So I don't know.
Speaker A:For me, often it comes from like when I go to a city, I do spend a lot of time, like trying to find out what is this place good at?
Speaker A:Not what people know it for, but what are, like, what are the specific foods from places that I get to experience and learn about for me sometimes for the first time or what is this city great at that people don't appreciate it for?
Speaker A:Like, we went to Philadelphia and yes, we went and got the best cheesesteak in town.
Speaker A:But that wasn't the thing that blew me away.
Speaker A:It was one of these, one of these Michael Solomon of restaurants.
Speaker A:So he runs Zahav.
Speaker A:And you know, I guess they're like Israeli.
Speaker A:Like, some are high end.
Speaker A:But the thing that blew me away was it was the french fries, right?
Speaker A:And it was all technique, right?
Speaker A:Because like, french fries, like, yeah, obviously the potatoes are using, were good.
Speaker A:But it was like, oh, God damn it.
Speaker A:They went through.
Speaker A:I'm like, these are a three step, at least process, right?
Speaker A:And they're like, yeah, it was.
Speaker A:And it was like, because the texture was so perfect.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, man, it's so rare when you run into somebody that did something perfectly.
Speaker A:I'm like, man, I know much how work, how much work it went into that.
Speaker A:Tell them that I appreciate what went into these because I'm not sure anybody else mentions it.
Speaker B:Yeah, the whole blanching of the fries first, you know, that, that makes a huge difference, you know, and then the right temperature.
Speaker B:I mean, there are a lot of things with something as simple as french fries.
Speaker A:And yeah.
Speaker B:You know, you just.
Speaker B:When, when you do run into something like that, it's like, oh, wow.
Speaker B:They were actually thinking a lot about that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And when every little thing matters.
Speaker A:And the other one was like.
Speaker A:And I'm going to do a whole episode on the Philadelphia trip.
Speaker A:So it's going to be a little repetitive, but it's.
Speaker A:It's like a New York City style pizza place, but the whole place is 100% vegan.
Speaker A:Cheese, meat, everything.
Speaker A:But they get the base and they season all the meat themselves.
Speaker A:Like, they worked on making their own blend of the cheese to make it exactly the way they wanted it.
Speaker A:And I'm like, their dough is one of the best New York style pizza doughs I've ever had.
Speaker A:And I'm like, it doesn't matter if it was vegan or not.
Speaker A:This is one of the best pizzerias in the country.
Speaker A:And the fact that more people don't know about it is because they.
Speaker A:You lose that objectivity.
Speaker A:Some people lose that when they see the term vegan or they're not paying attention to the details.
Speaker A:But that kind of place inspires me a lot where I just, like, you know what their dedication and they just, like, I'm just doing it this way because this is the right thing.
Speaker A:It's the right way of doing it.
Speaker A:And, yeah, maybe these French fries took way too much effort.
Speaker A:But, you know, if I.
Speaker A:You just hope that somebody walks in and says, man, I think these are the best French fries I've ever had.
Speaker A:Like, yeah.
Speaker A:And that doesn't happen.
Speaker A:Like we talked about.
Speaker A:The turkey sandwich doesn't happen on accident.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:And honestly, I think most people know, like, the best things just aren't easy.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:Just really aren't easy.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Or it's.
Speaker A:Hey, sometimes it's the best thing is simple, right?
Speaker A:You get a perfect seasonal tomato and you're just salting it and doing something easy to it.
Speaker A:Salt and oil and have it on a great piece of bread with something else.
Speaker A:That can also be amazing.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I don't know, it's.
Speaker A:I found it very.
Speaker A:I found it very inspiring to try making different sauces recently, too.
Speaker A:I was messing around with Mexican salsas recently and made.
Speaker A:Made one that kind of blew me away having made it.
Speaker A:I mean, I tasted it a bunch of times.
Speaker A:So it's often referred to as just like taqueria salsa.
Speaker A:It's like just green salsa.
Speaker A:It's not like a tomatillo salsa.
Speaker A:It's kind of sometimes as avocado.
Speaker A:And it's often referred to as avocado salsa or aguate or aguacate.
Speaker B:You're talking about like, the creamy kind of pourable.
Speaker B:Yeah, we like that one on tacos, too.
Speaker A:But often they're actually not making it with avocado because it's way cheaper to make it without avocado.
Speaker A:And they use zucchini in it, and it doesn't oxidize, it stays longer.
Speaker A:And you can still make it creamy with adding oil and everything else.
Speaker A:So I made it that way with silken tofu in it to make sure it got emulsified.
Speaker A:Man, one of the best sauces I've ever made.
Speaker A:I think I made two or three quarts of it all at the same time.
Speaker A:I was just dipping everything in that.
Speaker A:But that made me inspired just to learn more and to.
Speaker A:What else can I try next?
Speaker A:Should I make salsa matcha next?
Speaker A:Should I make something else next?
Speaker A:But those kind of things, when you make some.
Speaker A:Like, man, I think this might be one of the best things I've ever made.
Speaker A:Just gets you excited to try something else.
Speaker B:And it feels good.
Speaker A:Yeah, it does, right?
Speaker A:Kind of trigger.
Speaker A:Was there anything recently that kind of grabbed you that you were trying out that you made?
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, so I've been talking a lot.
Speaker B:I mean, probably since the spring.
Speaker B:I can't remember.
Speaker B:We were watching it over the.
Speaker B:Over the winter for a little bit, and I'm not sure we've actually finished it, but.
Speaker B:Taco Chronicles on Netflix.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so all the different regions in Mexico, all the different sauces and salsas and so fascinating to make tacos.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, and they circle around.
Speaker B:They go to Las Vegas.
Speaker B:My sister's coming in a couple of weeks from Las Vegas.
Speaker B:She lives out there.
Speaker B:And I recently was talking to her about this sauce we've been making at Fox Run for a lot of things that we do with pork.
Speaker B:And I feel like I saw a version of it on Taco Chronicles, so there's the inspiration, but they definitely didn't put mezcal in it.
Speaker B:So we're making an orange mezcal sauce.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:That's kind of like one of the taco sauces that I saw.
Speaker B:And, you know, the guys were just literally throwing it on the tacos with a spoon.
Speaker A:Love that.
Speaker B:About a foot away.
Speaker A:Great.
Speaker B:And it was like a super, super cool show in terms of how this guy was making the tacos, and he literally did it for eight hours a day.
Speaker B:It was the craziest thing.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:But this.
Speaker B:This stuff, they use it for the El Pastor style pork that they do where they marinate the pork overnight and they put it on a vertical spit and then, you know, spin it around and shave it off.
Speaker B:It's just really cool to be able to watch them do that.
Speaker B:But adding the mezcal for me was like, wow, that's.
Speaker B:That's exactly what I wanted.
Speaker B:I wanted that smokiness.
Speaker A:So was that in.
Speaker A:Was that you're more of a marinade or more of a finishing sauce that you were making?
Speaker B:I think it's an anything sauce.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And, you know, we just.
Speaker A:So is achiote in it too, or so.
Speaker B:So I use New Mexican chilies and guajillo chilies.
Speaker B:So the dried chilies, I hydrate those, you know, sometimes overnight, but you can just do them in some hot water.
Speaker B:But a lot of times I'll just do them in the orange juice.
Speaker B:So the base for the sauce is a lot of orange Juice and, you know, a fair amount of.
Speaker B:The fair amount of the chilies.
Speaker B:So it, it turns into this like this brick orange, you know, brick colored kind of orange sauce.
Speaker B:And, you know, there's onions and garlic and, you know, sometimes I like to cook the onions a little bit, you know, and a lot of salsas.
Speaker B:It's always raw and just a tamp down on the sort of acrid flavors of raw onion.
Speaker B:And it just makes the sauce so much smoother.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you get that little bit of bite from the mezcal and I would say it's probably half gallon of OJ.
Speaker B:And I put about 8 ounces of Mezcal on it, so you can actually taste it.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker B:A little bit of fresh cilantro, you know, grind it up in the blender or with an immersion blender, regular blender, whatever.
Speaker B:And it's just, it's a really fantastic thing for marinating pork.
Speaker B:We're using it right now in the food and wine experience.
Speaker B:And, you know, certainly some of the techniques there, you know, we, we love Mexican food, We love margaritas.
Speaker B:And it was, it was really interesting.
Speaker B:I'd never been to Mexico.
Speaker B:My sister's been living down there for, you know, four years or so.
Speaker B:So she came back with a lot of interesting techniques and she would always send me pictures and stuff.
Speaker B:So, you know, there's that inspiration for sure.
Speaker B:But, you know, there's also, you know, what other people are doing.
Speaker B:We have bison tacos on the menu at oh, Fun.
Speaker B:And they are hands down one of the most popular things right next to the club.
Speaker B:You know, if we don't have bison, someone comes in for bison tacos just about every day.
Speaker A:Now, my recollection there is a bison farm in the Finger Lakes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Mud Creek Bison Ranch just off of Route 86, north of Corning in Savona.
Speaker B:And Chris Comstock, owner, awesome guy.
Speaker B:I don't know how he's doing, what he's doing.
Speaker A:They're tremendous.
Speaker A:Making it, they're tremendous animals.
Speaker B:He has a huge, huge event space that he's working out of and a ton of bison roaming around his property.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It's always great to get together with him and we just, whenever he can bring it over.
Speaker B:He's also the delivery guy too.
Speaker B:So, of course, just.
Speaker A:That goes without saying.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:I think I want to wrap up just like, just because I want to say words around onions for a second.
Speaker A:So especially around Mexican cooking.
Speaker A:So I don't know how much you mess around with this or looked into It.
Speaker A:But a lot of the.
Speaker A:And we're coming up on our hours.
Speaker A:We're going to finish off this just because I want to nerd out about all onions for a second.
Speaker A:So a lot of, you know, a lot of traditional Mexican tacos, you'll get the, you know, the toppings of white onion and cilantro and then a sauce typically.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So often those white onions are very crisp, but they don't have a lot of heat to them.
Speaker A:Do you know why they're not.
Speaker A:They're not hot with onion flavor.
Speaker B:That I do not know.
Speaker A:So I'm going to throw something your way.
Speaker A:So this, this is another way of.
Speaker A:Without cooking the onions, you can take away the heat and just keep that crisp flavor.
Speaker A:You know, that brightness.
Speaker B:Almost.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Is almost always when they're like diced or sliced, they're running cold water over those or they're soaking them in cold water.
Speaker A:So just like a lot of, like the pizza place will soak the celery in cold water.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:You know, keep that crispness.
Speaker A:It's actually what you do with the, with the white onions.
Speaker A:So if you're slicing like, if you're doing slices for burgers or whatever, if you run cold water over it, like on like a rack into like a container or run it over, you take away almost all that surface heat and you just get the.
Speaker A:That bright crisp onion flavor without that heat from it.
Speaker A:So same thing.
Speaker A:If you, if you already like, if you large dice it, you're going to puree it into something.
Speaker A:If you just soak them for a little bit and then puree it, you get that onion flavor, that brightness, but without the heat at all.
Speaker A:So you can do that and still puree and have that beautiful flavor.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker B:It's kind of like a habanero.
Speaker B:I always wanted to get the habanero flavor, but not the heat.
Speaker A:Well, shout out to.
Speaker A:Shout out to.
Speaker A:What is it?
Speaker A:Row 7.
Speaker A:Seeds for making the habanada.
Speaker B:Exactly, exactly.
Speaker A:It's a hell of a product.
Speaker B:Love those guys.
Speaker A:So cool.
Speaker A:So once again, glorious.
Speaker A:Garlicfestival.com August 2nd and 3rd.
Speaker A:Go check out Brud's demo on Sunday the 3rd.
Speaker A:At what time roughly?
Speaker B:I believe it's the 12 o' clock slot.
Speaker A:Okay, there you go.
Speaker B:Double check.
Speaker B:Because, you know, I was gonna try to see if I could do a class on Saturday, but you know, demo on Saturday, but just not working out.
Speaker B:It's such a busy weekend.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, we have 10 weeks of summer here, July and August and you know, into first couple weeks in September and it's just, it's Fox one has just gotten really, really, really busy.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And for Everybody, go to foxtronevineards.com on the west side of Seneca Lake.
Speaker A:If you're not making a part of your agenda on the west side of Seneca, like, what are you doing?
Speaker A:You got to stop there.
Speaker A:Get some amazing food, get some great wines, try some more bread sandwiches.
Speaker A:Get that turkey sandwiches.
Speaker A:Good stuff.
Speaker A:Anything else I missed, man?
Speaker B:I don't think so, man.
Speaker B:It's great to see you, Chris.
Speaker A:All right, Nice to see you as well.
Speaker A:And we'll be back next time on the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:Make sure you check out some of our newer shows like Common Thread from Rory Van Grohl and Greg Benoit talking about living the hardcore music life and how it's affected them as adults.
Speaker A:Or also, why don't you check out the bossy show from Kelly Bush and Kelly Metris talking about being a business owner.
Speaker A:It's frank, it's honest.
Speaker A:This is the kind of show you want to listen to people talk about business on.
Speaker A:And we'll be back next time with more on the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening to the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:If you aren't already subscribed, what are you waiting for?
Speaker A:Go to your podcast app of choice and make us your favorite podcast podcast by subscribing and leaving a review if you can.
Speaker A:Music for the podcast was created by the fabulous Taurus Savant.
Speaker A:You can hear more of his work@taurusavant.bandcamp.com and make your presence known by seeing him perform live.
Speaker A:Food About Town is a proud member of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker A:Oh, no, here comes McKenneth.
Speaker A:This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker A:Do you want to learn more about onions?
Speaker A:Go to foodabouttown onions.com tacos co cat.
