From Trains to Taps: Rails and Ales and More!
Chris Lindstrom (@stromie) hosts a captivating discussion about the vibrant food and beer scene in Rochester, particularly focusing on the upcoming Rails and Ales festival. Otto Vondrak (@roc_otto), the marketing manager for the Rochester and Genesee Valley Railroad (@rocrealtrains) and create of the Rochester Beer Blog (@rocbeerblog), joins the conversation to share insights about the festival, the railroad museum, and the importance of supporting local breweries. They delve into the intricate relationship between the railroad and the food industry, showcasing how railroads transport essential ingredients for local products like pasta and Cool Whip. The episode highlights the camaraderie among local brewers and the evolving craft beer culture, encouraging listeners to embrace the community spirit that defines Rochester's culinary landscape.
Links referenced in this episode:
rochestertrainrides.com - rochesterbeerblog.wordpress.com
Mentioned in this episode:
Behind the Glass
Podcast and gallery focusing on underrepresented artists utilize the space to amplify their work. Curated by @Richardbcolon @qua.jay. Check out the podcast or join them in person first Fridays at 240 E Main St, Rochester, NY! https://behind-the-glass-gallery.captivate.fm
Mind of Magnus
Check out Mind of Magnus at magnusapollo.com, and leave him factoids at 585-310-2473! https://mind-of-magnus.captivate.fm
Joe Bean Roasters
Joe Bean Coffee - Coffee that lifts everyone. https://shop.joebeanroasters.com
Transcript
I'm Chris Lindstrom, and this is the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker B:Rochester.
Speaker B:Well, why Rochester?
Speaker A:Chris Lindstrom was a hoot.
Speaker A:He was just so much fun.
Speaker A:He never stopped talking.
Speaker B:I mean, it was great.
Speaker B:Here's a good idea.
Speaker B:Have a point.
Speaker B:It makes it so much more interesting for the listener, and we don't need.
Speaker A:Any characters around to give the joint atmosphere.
Speaker B:Is that clear?
Speaker A:Because I'm a pro.
Speaker A:That's what pros do.
Speaker A:I'm a professional.
Speaker A:Look it up in the book.
Speaker B:But now, yeah, I'm thinking I'm back.
Speaker A:And we are back with another episode of the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:And it's an exciting time of the year.
Speaker A:This is festival season.
Speaker A:We just got through doing some preview work and some information about the Lilac Festival, which was a great time.
Speaker A:A little bit of rain this weekend.
Speaker A:As you would expect, it's springtime in Rochester.
Speaker A:But this is a festival season that is so many different things.
Speaker A:We've got the big festivals, we got Cornhill Arts, we got, you know, all the big ones.
Speaker A:Then we have, you know, town ones, and then we have specialty ones.
Speaker A:And I'm here with somebody with a specialty event guest.
Speaker A:Why don't you introduce yourself?
Speaker B:My name is Otto Vondrak, and I'm the marketing manager for the Rochester and Genesee Valley Railroad down in Rush, New York.
Speaker A:So let's talk about the event first.
Speaker A:This is Rails and Ales.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:I'd say this is one of the first beer events of the year on the calendar, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:The way I try to schedule it, and we've been doing this for five years now.
Speaker B:I try to make our Rails Nails events bookend the festival season.
Speaker B:So our first one is coming up May 24, and then we'll have a second one in September, and that kind of bookends the whole festival season.
Speaker A:Yeah, because that's like having the first one out as a beer festival in Rochester.
Speaker A:Like, that's a big thing.
Speaker A:Because we have a huge.
Speaker A:Like a big selection.
Speaker B:Yeah, we do.
Speaker A:The demand for beer festivals and the demand for beer in Rochester is continually crazy.
Speaker A:And we're going to talk about that, obviously, through your work on the Rochester Beer Blog as well.
Speaker B:That's my other hat.
Speaker B:So, yeah, besides volunteering at the Railroad Museum, I'm also the author of the Rochester Beer Blog.
Speaker A:So let's talk about.
Speaker A:So the event on May 24th.
Speaker A:Let's get the plugs out now, where people can go buy tickets and learn about the event in detail.
Speaker A:And we'll talk about that before we go into everything else.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:Some good news, bad news situation here?
Speaker B:The event sold out this morning.
Speaker A:Oh, God.
Speaker A:Well, that one.
Speaker A:That's great.
Speaker B:No, I mean, it's great because it's a.
Speaker B:It's one of our museum.
Speaker B:It's one of our primary fundraisers for the museum.
Speaker B:And so we're always excited to see all that community support because, you know, I'm wearing two hats here.
Speaker B:I'm trying to come up with exciting events for the railroad museum.
Speaker B:But also I'm looking for ways that we can support local breweries.
Speaker B:And that's really what a lot of these beer festivals are about.
Speaker B:It's about supporting breweries.
Speaker B:It's maybe about learning breweries.
Speaker B:You don't know about trying products.
Speaker B:They're coming in with new beers.
Speaker B:So, yes, unfortunately, the event is sold out.
Speaker B:But if you like what you're going to hear about today, come and join us in September for our Oktoberfest edition of Rails Nails.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:So let's talk about the museum, too.
Speaker A:So they can't go until September, but let's talk about the museum.
Speaker A:So this is not only a railroad museum, this is also an operable railroad.
Speaker B:We're the only operating railroad museum in New York state.
Speaker B:And what that means.
Speaker B:There's plenty of railroad museums around New York where you can go and just look at stuff.
Speaker B:You go visit a depot or go look at some trains they have.
Speaker B:But we're an actual functioning railroad, so we actually restore the trains.
Speaker B:We want you to climb aboard and come take a ride with us.
Speaker B:And we've built our own one mile demonstration railroad.
Speaker B:The ride starts at industry depot.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B: It's a: Speaker B: w it would have looked in the: Speaker B:You've probably driven past it a million times, but that's where your train ride starts.
Speaker B:You actually go inside the station.
Speaker B:You get your tickets from the ticket agent.
Speaker B:You look around some of the exhibits.
Speaker B:The train ride actually brings you to the rest of the museum.
Speaker B:Our museum has two ends.
Speaker B:So you take your train ride, we bring you to the upper yard.
Speaker B:There's a whole other train yard of trains to explore.
Speaker B:We have exhibits up there.
Speaker B:You get to peek inside our restoration shop and see where we repair and restore the trains.
Speaker B:We just have so many different.
Speaker B:And our exhibits change all the time because we're moving the trains around and we have more things than we can ever display at one time.
Speaker B:So if you think you've been to this museum and you were there years ago or maybe you were even there when you were a little kid, I guarantee you it's different.
Speaker B:And it's probably not like anything else you've ever seen.
Speaker B:So I hope you'd come out and visit us even when we're not doing rails and nails.
Speaker B:You can find us@rochestertrainrides.com and what are.
Speaker A:The kind of typical days where somebody wanted to bring the family, you know, bring some kids.
Speaker A:I mean, there's nothing kids love more than a train.
Speaker A:You know, big equipment, you know, that whole experience.
Speaker A:What, what kind of days could people come out and check out the museum when there's not a big event like this?
Speaker B:We.
Speaker B:We have a number of events throughout the year.
Speaker B:This summer we're doing a series of ice cream train rides.
Speaker A:Oh, awesome.
Speaker B:Working with a few local vendors on that.
Speaker B:We have a few donut day train rides coming up.
Speaker B:Besides that, we just had a fun event.
Speaker B:Princess and superhero train rides is what it sounds like.
Speaker B:You come and dress up and you'll probably meet some of your fav.
Speaker B:Favorite characters will be there.
Speaker B:We have train and tractor, train truck and tractor train rides.
Speaker B:So many teas.
Speaker B:We have another event coming up.
Speaker B:Trains and trolleys at twilight.
Speaker B:We partner with the trolley museum.
Speaker A:Even more teas.
Speaker B:There's so many tees.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:No, we just.
Speaker B:We have a whole variety of events.
Speaker B:And even though the train ride is geared towards shorter attention spans, like it's the perfect length of time.
Speaker B:Keep kids occupied.
Speaker B:Because the train rides about 10, 15 minutes in each direction, you have plenty of time to look around and then you actually take the train ride to get back to where you started.
Speaker B:So it's great, you know, outing with the family and you're not going to be spending an entire day lost in some dusty museum.
Speaker B:Things are moving.
Speaker B:Things are happening all the time.
Speaker B:You get to enjoy all the sights and sounds of railroading.
Speaker B:You can ride in the caboose, which is where the freight train crew would live and sleep and eat.
Speaker B:That was that.
Speaker B:That's an enclosed.
Speaker B:It's almost like riding in an rv.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's got bunks, it's got a stove.
Speaker B:It's got everything.
Speaker B:It's like.
Speaker B:It's like a tiny home.
Speaker B:It was a tiny home for the train crew.
Speaker B:You can ride in that.
Speaker B:We also have an open air car, which is a flat car with bench seating and has a roof, but it's open on all four sides, so you can enjoy all the scenery and all the sights and sound and all the bell ringing and the horn blowing.
Speaker B:And for a select few people, when you get to the station, you can actually buy what we call cab pass and you can ride with the engineer in the locomotive.
Speaker A:So cool.
Speaker B:So we offer all these different experiences and like I said, you get to.
Speaker B:I think the thing about our museum too, is that we've reached a generation where I think people don't have as much interaction with the railroad like they used to.
Speaker B:Used to be in a town like this, there were five railroads in town.
Speaker B:You probably had a relative that worked for the railroad or.
Speaker B:Or your rel or whatever it was.
Speaker B:Those interactions are the only interactions I feel people have with trains today is when they get stuck at the crossing and they're trying to go to work.
Speaker A:Well, that and like, you know, back in the day, like, you wanted to get to Buffalo, you took the train.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:You didn't drive a car, you took the train.
Speaker B:And there was more than one way to get there, too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:From Rochester, you could get to Albany, to Buffalo, you can go south to Pittsburgh, south to Corning.
Speaker B:There was.
Speaker B:There was like five different ways you could.
Speaker B:You could travel throughout the region.
Speaker B:So again, I think now people don't have that connection anymore.
Speaker B:And that's really what our museum is all about.
Speaker B:We want to foster those community connections.
Speaker B:We want to show you what impact the railroad still has on your life today.
Speaker B:I think people don't realize what railroads do.
Speaker B:Even if you're not taking Amtrak to get somewhere, the railroad is still delivering not only the things that you wear and you drive and you use in the kitchen, but also the food on your table.
Speaker A:And still one of the most efficient large transportation methods right in the world.
Speaker A:Like we're talking when it comes to efficiency, like it's big ships and then its railroad being the most efficient ways of transporting these real heavy, you know, the heavy big containers and things like that.
Speaker A:Especially now with some of the more modern, you know, electro diesels and things like that.
Speaker A:They're actually.
Speaker A:It's still the most efficient way of transporting things, and a lot of stuff is still moved around the country that.
Speaker B:Way and tying it back to food and local food on top of that.
Speaker B:So the railroad that runs past our museum, we're tied into a real railroad.
Speaker B:It's called the Livonia, Avon and Lakeville Railroad.
Speaker B:And they just celebrated their 60th anniversary and they're afraid.
Speaker B:We call them a short line.
Speaker B:They're under 100 miles and their track runs From Lakeville all the way up into Henrietta.
Speaker B:And then they connect with CSX and some other railroads.
Speaker B:But their primary business is food and agriculture.
Speaker B:So there's a big Barilla pasta plant that's an Avon.
Speaker B: years ago, I think, in: Speaker B:And one of the reasons that they located on the railroad was they wanted that level of service, to have a railroad right to their door.
Speaker B:They get dozens of hopper cars full of flour every day.
Speaker B:Not like once a week, every day.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:The railroad has to switch them out every day and bring in more flour because it's part of the process.
Speaker B:If they don't have the flour to make pasta, the factory shuts down.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker B:They get switched out six days a week.
Speaker B:They're one of the railroad's biggest customers.
Speaker B:But that Barilla pasta that you see on the store shelves, that's made in part because of the.
Speaker B:Of the factory in Avon and because the railroad's delivering the flower.
Speaker B:The world supply of Cool Whip comes from Avon.
Speaker B:Did you know that?
Speaker A:No.
Speaker B:The craft Cool Whip factory is located in Avon.
Speaker B: It's been there since: Speaker B:The World Supply of Cool Whip comes from Avon.
Speaker A:Oh, shit.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:That's wild, right?
Speaker A:I mean, like, you know that you.
Speaker A:You hear the little things, right?
Speaker A:You hear, oh, Leroy and Jello.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That's the stuff you hear about.
Speaker A:And you know, like, you know, the local stuff.
Speaker A:But things like that that are legit right around the corner.
Speaker A:Like, no idea.
Speaker A:We had a big berea factory here in town.
Speaker A:Or you.
Speaker A:The supply of Cool Whip, you know, stuff you grow up eating.
Speaker A:Like, I had no idea that was here.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And that Cool Whip again.
Speaker B:That's because the railroad is bringing in tank cars of corn syrup.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then corn syrup and sweeteners is actually how the railroad did their first major expansion.
Speaker B:A couple of companies are located in Lakeville and their whole business is making corn syrup and sweeteners.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And a lot of times they'll bring in the raw materials.
Speaker B:It's the best customer for the railroad.
Speaker B:Not only bringing in the materials to make the corn syrup, but then they're shipping out corn syrup in tank cars.
Speaker B:So the Livonia, Avon and Lakeville railroad is an important part of our local and regional food industry.
Speaker A:Fascinating stuff, man.
Speaker A:So let's talk about.
Speaker A:I mean, you just.
Speaker B:We could talk about trains all day.
Speaker A:I want to talk about trains.
Speaker A:So before we go into the beer side.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What is it about trains that brought you in to volunteer as part of this?
Speaker A:Obviously you have a passion for it and, like, understand the importance of how it built industry in the US but also continues to do that.
Speaker A:But what about personally, trains, like, appeals to you that you wanted to volunteer.
Speaker B:For it right now it's kind of funny because I grew up outside New York City, grew up in Westchester county and road trains all the time.
Speaker B:My dad had his workshop in New York City.
Speaker B:You know, we live 45 minutes away, but there was a train to the city every half hour.
Speaker B:I mean, you could live far out in the country and you had access to New York City because the commuter train was there.
Speaker A:Very different culture of train riding around major cities.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:And that's probably one of the biggest shocks when I came up to Rochester is like, oh, we don't have that kind of transportation network.
Speaker B:But it was those first train rides I think I took when I was a little kid, and my dad gave me a train set for the holidays one year, and it kind of snowballed from there.
Speaker B:And I think it was my interest in the toy trains that developed into an interest in scale models, but also the fact that I was riding the trains every day with him, especially during the summer when school was out.
Speaker B:My mom wanted to get rid of me, and it was like, you know, go with your dad to the city.
Speaker A:As what it was at the time.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:So, you know, I'm looking at my toy trains on the floor.
Speaker B:I'm like, dad, how do I make my trains more real?
Speaker B:And that's what turned to an interested to scale models and history and even the hobby of model railroading.
Speaker B:There's so many facets to it because it's history, it's architecture, it's.
Speaker B:It's so many different things you don't even realize that you're learning about.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Fast forward.
Speaker B:And then, you know, I always had an interest in.
Speaker B:In trains and railroads and I built models.
Speaker B:I started taking pictures.
Speaker B:Like, people probably hear about people like, chasing trains to get, you know, photographs.
Speaker B:It's like visiting places to get different pictures of trains in different places with different.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's a totally nerdy, like, you can go down this rabbit hole so deep.
Speaker A:There's a.
Speaker A:There's a nerdy British guy on Tick Tock who chases trains around.
Speaker A:And the.
Speaker A:And it's like, it's not my thing.
Speaker A:But the unbridled.
Speaker B:His enthusiasm.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's the joy he has when he sees this specific train.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That just makes him so genuinely thrilled and excited.
Speaker A:And it's like, you know what that's it's amazing.
Speaker A:Like, it's one of those things where it's not my thing.
Speaker B:It's a passion.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I love.
Speaker A:Love that when it.
Speaker A:When that's available to you and you get.
Speaker B:When it's.
Speaker B:When it's a legitimate passion, and it's like, you know, and I think it's something.
Speaker B:So, I mean, just to put a bow on all this, I grew up riding trains.
Speaker B:I had model trains.
Speaker B:I'm taking pictures of trains.
Speaker B:I'm learning about history.
Speaker B:I'd written some papers, and I had gotten.
Speaker B:I went to Rochester Institute of Technology, and I was in one of my freshman art classes, and I was probably sketching or doodling a train, and the professor looks over my shoulder, and he's like, you know, there's a railroad museum just down the road from here.
Speaker B:And I'm like, no, what?
Speaker B:And that was actually the transportation museum, East River Road.
Speaker B:And we started visiting there, and then we learned that the railroad museum, the Rochester and Genesee Valley Road Museum, was connected.
Speaker B:So one museum built their track.
Speaker B:We each built our tracks towards each other and met in the middle.
Speaker A:Oh, that's awesome.
Speaker B:And we used to do a joint train ride and work together, and we've since gone our separate ways.
Speaker B:But it was just that whole thing that there was that whole environment to get involved in.
Speaker B:And besides growing up riding trains, my parents were art and antique dealers, and we travel around the whole Northeast, going to auctions and flea markets and.
Speaker B:And tag sales and whatever it was.
Speaker B:And my consolation for tagging along was like, if I could look up if there was a train museum or a tourist railroad nearby, we got to visit.
Speaker B:So I think was a combination of growing up riding trains, visiting all these museums and tourist railroads, and me personally, everyone's like, oh, don't you want to work for the railroad?
Speaker B:Work for the railroad?
Speaker B:And it's like, what a great way to destroy your passion, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:When your hobby becomes your job, it's tough.
Speaker A:I mean, like, I think we both, you know, have passions for the things that we write and talk about all the time, and they're deep and real, but the more you get into it, the harder it is to, you know, just love it.
Speaker B:Well, and spoiler.
Speaker B:I actually did turn my hobby into my job.
Speaker B:We'll get to that in a minute.
Speaker B:But that's.
Speaker B:That's why I started volunteering at the railroad museum, because it was an operating museum.
Speaker B:They're actually moving trains.
Speaker B:So it's the whole idea.
Speaker B:It's like, wow, I can get involved In a museum, like the ones I grew up visiting, like going behind the velvet rope, you know, it's like, wow, I get to go on the other side of the rope now and I get to be that guy.
Speaker B:And that was exciting.
Speaker B:And also the fact that we're an operating railroad and we're a real railroad with real rules and real trains and they'll really kill you if you're not safe.
Speaker B:But just the fact that I can be in that environment and enjoy it safely and still do my job.
Speaker B:But I'm not obligated.
Speaker B:Like, the people and man, I don't know how they do it.
Speaker B:The people work for the railroads because you're on call, you're away from your family, you're working terrible hours.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's, it's the same life as an over the road trucker.
Speaker B:You're away from home, you're missing anniversaries and birthdays and it's, it's.
Speaker B:I always joke, you know, because I have friends that work for the railroad.
Speaker B:They're like, man, you'd be so good.
Speaker B:You should come hire out with us.
Speaker B:I'm like, listen, I like my railroading on the weekends, in the sunshine during the summer.
Speaker B:But no, but that, that's where it comes from.
Speaker B:I think it was just growing up, riding the trains, visiting museums and just wanting to be a part of that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'm going to throw two random train things out there.
Speaker A:1.
Speaker A:Talk about my dad for a second.
Speaker A:So my dad is a pre war Lionel train collector.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Which is a very specific niche.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So he's a pre war train collector.
Speaker A:He goes to the York model train thing every year.
Speaker A:Legit every year.
Speaker A:Stays the whole weekend.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like his collection is wild.
Speaker A:Like, and he doesn't have a setup.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But he just has this collection of pre war Lionel trains.
Speaker A:And oh my God, the selection of stuff he has is absolutely astonishing.
Speaker A:He's trolling ebay all the time.
Speaker A:He's, you know, he'll trade going down there.
Speaker A:But he like, and it's not my, again, not my thing.
Speaker A:But I like, love how much like the stuff he has is an amazing quality and it's so cool.
Speaker B:And what's interesting about that part of the hobby too is that when you're collecting toy trains, there's so many aspects of it.
Speaker B:There's the collecting aspect, there's the meeting other collectors and doing all the horse trading like you're talking about.
Speaker B:There's going to the shows.
Speaker B:Some people who do Build layouts.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And let's face it, toy trains are toys.
Speaker B:They're meant to be played with.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I love going to people's house.
Speaker B:They're like, oh, yeah, wow.
Speaker B:You have this great collection and you're running it.
Speaker B:That's great.
Speaker B:There's no.
Speaker B:There's no joy in collecting this stuff and keeping the original box and putting on a shelf look, maybe for some people, but they're toys.
Speaker B:They're meant to be played with.
Speaker B:And I think that's.
Speaker B:That's also the interesting part of the railroading hobby is that there's so many niches you can.
Speaker B:You can go down.
Speaker B:There's toy trains, there's scale models, there's what we call rail fanning.
Speaker B:There's photography.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:There's so many different ways you can go down this path.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I did want to bring up if somebody does want to check out a really interesting layout here in Rochester.
Speaker A:So one of the reasons why I love talking about this place because it has ties to so much Rochester history.
Speaker A:So this is the.
Speaker A:There's an Edgerton train layout in the city.
Speaker A:So this is at a community center at Edgerton park in the city of Rochester.
Speaker A:And one.
Speaker A:It is a beautiful, beautiful layout.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:It has a great local connection, too.
Speaker B:I found out about this club years before I.
Speaker B:I could even find Rochester on the map.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:This club was started in the 50s, and it was started by the Police Athletic League.
Speaker B:And whoever was in charge of the Police Athletic League at the time, he.
Speaker B:He wrote to the Lionel Corporation and he's like, hey, I'm Officer so and so.
Speaker B:And we're starting.
Speaker B:We're starting this big community exhibit.
Speaker B:And gosh, could Lionel support us in any way, thinking they were gonna get like a locomotive or a train?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:I think Lionel showed up with like a truck one day and just unloaded all this stuff for them to build a layout.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I'm not sure if that original group is still around, but the Police Athletic League was designed to be a community interaction group and that.
Speaker B:That's where it had its roots.
Speaker B:And I know the entrance to the exhibit is made to look like an observation car and more community connection.
Speaker B:They reached out to the car shops that used to be in East Rochester.
Speaker B:They said, hey, New York Central Railroad, can you donate?
Speaker B:You know, New York Central Railroad gave them a couple the marker lamps, the red lamps that'd be at the end of the train.
Speaker B:Passenger named passenger trains.
Speaker B:All the streamliners had these lit up.
Speaker B:They call them Drumhead signs.
Speaker B:Every train.
Speaker B:The 20th Century Limited, the Commodore Vanderbilt.
Speaker B:They have a drum head for the Empire State Express, which was another train that ran through Rochester.
Speaker A:So cool.
Speaker B:So they got all this support, but you're like, Otto, how do you know about this?
Speaker B:You're not even from Rochester.
Speaker B:So when, when this was built, there was a.
Speaker B:Lionel produced a paperback book, you know, how to Get Into Model Trains.
Speaker B:And it was written by some contract author, but there's a whole chapter about the Edgerton Model Railroad Club.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:I learned about this when I was like, you know, a little kid because I was finding anything I can find about train, any book about trains, I was, I was absorbing it.
Speaker B:And this little paperback book from the 50s that was printed by the thousands, you know, is like how to Get Into Model Trains.
Speaker B:And it was co sponsored by Lionel, of course.
Speaker B:And there's a whole chapter about the Edgerton Club.
Speaker B:And I know there's.
Speaker B:The layout has gone through a few iterations, but the core, the core idea of having this Four Seasons layout that you can just kind of walk into, you see all the stuff.
Speaker B:And they're toy trains and they're meant to be moving and animated.
Speaker B:There's always accessories.
Speaker B:There's like, you know, the milk car with the guy throwing off the milk cans and things like that's the whole point of toy trains, is that they're fun, they're animated.
Speaker B:There's buttons to press for you to do things.
Speaker B:And over the last 50, 60 years, they've updated the exhibit.
Speaker B:Like there's a drive in movie theater and there's an iPad screen showing movies on the, on the movie theater screen, things like that.
Speaker B:We're updating the technology, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, but, yeah, no, the Edgerton, you know, if you want to get your kids in the trains, just bring them down to an exhibit like that.
Speaker B:And that's a great way to really be immersed in that part of the hobby.
Speaker A:Yeah, my dad brought me there and the thing that rang to me after was I was doing my own, doing some research myself and that I eventually found that that park there used to be a stadium there.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And that is where the Rochester Royals basketball played was at Edgerton park arena.
Speaker B: And the royals are the: Speaker A: and it's got a beautiful big: Speaker B:I love that you go to the Sacramento Kings website and they're like, we're NBA champs.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:When we were in Rochester.
Speaker A:Way, way, way after Oscar Robertson.
Speaker B:Yeah, right, right.
Speaker A:Way before.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:No, but that look, all those connections of history.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And the.
Speaker B:And the Rochester Subway.
Speaker B:So the Rochester subway ran from Brighton through the city and up to Greece, more or less up to the GM plant.
Speaker B:And there was a station at Edgerton Park.
Speaker B:And the station they built at Edgerton park was twice as big as all the other stations.
Speaker B:Because early on, I think they expected Edgerton park to be more of a big exposition center with the stadium with.
Speaker B:It was supposed to be more things.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it didn't end up being that way.
Speaker B: re riding the subway into the: Speaker B:Because they were expecting they'd be running multiple trains.
Speaker B:So whatever's going on, Edgerton Park.
Speaker B:And it just didn't happen that way.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's a shame because that's like that.
Speaker A:That route.
Speaker A:Is that that boom town that Rochester was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And that opportunity that we had to, you know, build out that infrastructure of what.
Speaker A:What has happened in other major cities.
Speaker A:Like, you go to other cities, like Boston's a great example, where the train stations underneath the TD Bank Garden.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Right under.
Speaker A:It's right under the Garden because.
Speaker A:And that's one of the biggest ones in the area.
Speaker A:It's the hub of going to downtown.
Speaker A:It's the hub of everything.
Speaker B:And you have cities too, like Boston that are literally old hub and spoke cities like Rochester.
Speaker B:If you look at a map of Rochester, it's a hub and spoke city.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And in Boston, they're called streetcar suburbs.
Speaker B:The streetcars went out.
Speaker B:There was no one living out there.
Speaker B:But they're like, if we give people away to get downtown, they can live anywhere.
Speaker B:And all these suburbs sprang up because of the streetcars.
Speaker B:And Boston has lost a lot of the streetcar lines that got turned into buses.
Speaker B:But Boston still relies on its streetcar network.
Speaker B:Like you said, the commuter rail goes right downtown.
Speaker B:There's two.
Speaker B:There's North Station, South Station.
Speaker B:Boston Garden is under North Station.
Speaker B:New York City.
Speaker B:Penn Station is right under Madison Square Garden.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, they tore down Penn Station to make Madison Square Garden.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You can look that up, kids.
Speaker B:Google it.
Speaker B:It's not pretty.
Speaker A:It's pretty.
Speaker B:But the railroad was broke.
Speaker B:They owned prime real estate in midtown Manhattan.
Speaker B:Madison Square Gardens.
Speaker B:Like, we want to build our facility here.
Speaker B:And the railroad said, sold.
Speaker B:But it's funny because Penn Station is served by Jersey Transit, Long Island Railroad And Amtrak.
Speaker B:So whenever there's an event at Madison Square Garden, people come from all over.
Speaker B:Because MSG is on top of Penn Station, it doesn't get any easier to get there, even in Minneapolis.
Speaker B:I was in a place like Minneapolis.
Speaker B:They have light rail, they have commuter rail.
Speaker B:Where's it all go?
Speaker B:Downtown to Target center, to the stadium.
Speaker A:And it makes so much sense that that's the way it was built.
Speaker A:Speaking of built and speaking of demand, we're gonna pivot from trains.
Speaker A:We're gonna come back, we're gonna talk about the local beer scene, and we'll be right back.
Speaker A:And we're back from break, and we were talking in the break, and, like, Otto did a.
Speaker A:He had a beautiful.
Speaker A:This is a radio pivot.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:This is professional stuff right here.
Speaker A:Why don't you go train to beer pivot for me?
Speaker B:So it's interesting.
Speaker B:We were talking about trains, and we're trying to pivot to beer.
Speaker B:And I was mentioning, you know, Genesee Brewery still uses the railroad to bring in their raw materials to make beer.
Speaker B:If you ever been to the brewery at High Falls and you've seen all the improvements down there and probably notice the old wooden trestle that's clinging to the side of the gorge there.
Speaker B:That railroad's been there for more than 100 years.
Speaker B:But you have to imagine that there used to be a train track that went right into the brewery, and they would deliver the raw materials for making beer right there.
Speaker B:They used to also ship out packaged beer, but the majority of that, like, switched to trucks a while ago just because of the way Genesee Beer specifically was distributed.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was usually put in trucks, but occasionally they would ship out packaged beer.
Speaker B:But for the most part, it was bringing in the raw materials.
Speaker B: And around: Speaker B:And they decided rather than rebuild the trestle, rebuild the track, they still bring the raw materials in for making beer into the Goodman street yard, which is over by Village Gate, and they transload it to trucks, and they just truck at the last mile to the brewery.
Speaker A:Still cutting down so much other transport and especially the volume that's going on, you would.
Speaker B:You would be tearing up the streets if you had to ship everything by truck.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:We were talking about how railroads are great for shipping bulk materials.
Speaker B:If you've ever been up to Sodas Point, and the Genesee Malt House is still up there.
Speaker B:It's a.
Speaker B:It's a landmark.
Speaker B: ieve the malt house closed in: Speaker B:And then when everything was ready to go, they loaded up on trains, ship it to Rochester.
Speaker B:Another component of making beer so cool.
Speaker A:So that's where I originally ran across you, is running the Rochester Beer Blog.
Speaker B:That's me.
Speaker B:It's a real thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So when did that start for you?
Speaker B: Started April: Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And it's funny because every year April comes around and I'm like, I feel like I should be doing something right now.
Speaker B:And when I started the beer blog, it was.
Speaker B:It's always been for fun.
Speaker B:It's always been for fun.
Speaker B: st moved back to Rochester in: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And there was so much new beer going on, and I was just fascinated by it.
Speaker B:And coming from a bit of a marketing background, you realize, like, everyone has a story and not even trying.
Speaker B:But I just struck up a friendship with a lot of the local brewery owners.
Speaker B:They were anxious.
Speaker B:They want.
Speaker B:They want to tell you their stories.
Speaker A: like when we're talking about: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Comparatively to now where there's a crazy amount.
Speaker A:But at that point, there were a very small mark, 10, if even that in Rochester.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A: I'm thinking about: Speaker A:And that would have been Post Stone Yard opening originally.
Speaker B:You would.
Speaker B:It was post rock, Post Stone yard.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it was less than 10.
Speaker B:It was less.
Speaker A:But it wasn't that huge boom of the New York State farm breweries opening and all the.
Speaker B:We were.
Speaker B:We were right at the base of a wave that's like.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was starting to swell.
Speaker B:And where I talked about my.
Speaker B:My hobby bequeling my job.
Speaker B:I grew up reading all these magazines about model trains and real trains, and in the back of my mind, I'm like, oh, boy, I'd love to work for one of these magazines someday.
Speaker B:And I always had an interest in design and art.
Speaker B:I went to rit, I got a degree in graphic design, and long story short, I ended up getting a job working for a publishing company that publishes train magazines.
Speaker A:So cool.
Speaker B:It is cool.
Speaker B:It's a lot of fun.
Speaker B:I can't believe I get paid to play with trains, but here we are.
Speaker B: been doing that, gosh, since: Speaker B: this publishing company since: Speaker B:And it's a Great job not going anywhere.
Speaker B:I enjoy what I do.
Speaker B:But in the back of my mind, professionally, I was always like, if I ever was trying to get a job, the only body of work I can show is my railroad work, which is fine, but it's like, I want to show that I can do other things, that I can work in a field, research things, write coherent, something outside my field of railroading.
Speaker B:And that's kind of where the beer blog came about.
Speaker B:You know, strictly a hobby, but just to show, like, hey, I can.
Speaker B:I can interview, I can research, I can.
Speaker B:Because craft beer was so new and people were throwing around these words, and I'm like, what does this word mean?
Speaker B:And, you know, and I.
Speaker B:You know, one of the first things I learned writing the blog was some brewer is really excited about whatever hops he was using.
Speaker B:And, sure, I had to pretend to know what he was talking about.
Speaker A:It's a great way to start knowing something.
Speaker B:Well, no, it was.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It kind of was interesting.
Speaker B:And he's talking about centennial hops and, And.
Speaker B:And this hops and that hops.
Speaker B:And I just assumed that these were.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, I.
Speaker B:I knew there were varieties, but I thought they were, like, naturally occurring varieties.
Speaker B:So I go, for instance, I Google centennial hops, and I learned, like, no, this is a cultivated, trademarked variant from one of the growers.
Speaker B:There's not just a centennial plant out there that anyone can grow.
Speaker B:The centennial only comes from that grower.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's like, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker B:Or even, like, teaching people what the word collaboration means.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:You know, like, that's when two brewery, two or more breweries get together on a brew.
Speaker B:You know, to this day, I'll talk about an ipa, and I still spell it out.
Speaker B:I'm like, ipa or an India Pale Ale.
Speaker B:Because we've been talking about them for so long.
Speaker B:I think people have forgotten what these are and what I was trying to do.
Speaker B:I wasn't trying to speak down to people, but I think there are so many opinions about what craft beer is and what craft beer should be.
Speaker B:And it probably got corrupted along the way, and it became a.
Speaker B:I feel like it got corrupt into, like, a snobbery thing where it's like, oh, you don't drink craft beer.
Speaker B:You drink Budweiser.
Speaker B:Well, you're an idiot.
Speaker B:And it's like, no, you always drink what you enjoy.
Speaker B:Never feel bad about drinking whatever you like.
Speaker B:But at the same time, I think some people try to construct craft beer to make people not feel welcome so they can have something that they can feel exclusive about which, you know, whatever.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's.
Speaker A:That attitude is the thing that bothers me the most about pretty much everything that I get into is there's gatekeeping.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When I.
Speaker A:When I get into something, I go pretty hard.
Speaker A:Like, I mean, you worked around the.
Speaker B:Studio, so I love, by the way.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And I am a.
Speaker A:Like, hey, I.
Speaker A:When I got into spirits, like, hey, I learned.
Speaker A:I learned from my friend who is a expert in the field.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And I talked to him, and he sampled me on so many things, and then I built my own collection.
Speaker A:And the thing that I try to value the most is one, learning how to taste.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Two, learning what you enjoy and being able to describe what you like and why.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And then sharing that with others and learning about what they like.
Speaker A:And, hey, when somebody wants to taste you, like, hey, everything's open.
Speaker A:You're welcome to taste anything.
Speaker A:I have on the shelf.
Speaker A:I've been able to take so many things.
Speaker B:That's a bottle of 25 year.
Speaker B:What's it called?
Speaker B:You can't crack that open, of course.
Speaker A:And that's the stuff that drives me crazy is people try, you know, buying.
Speaker A:You know, buying it retail and selling it secondary just to make a profit.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:And we've seen that in beer.
Speaker A:We've seen that locally in beer.
Speaker A:We've seen that at, you know, we've seen that Mortalis, where people are buying these stouts and some for 4x on secondary.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:That's not the way.
Speaker A:I think you shouldn't.
Speaker A:I'm not.
Speaker A:I'm not one to demonize somebody's enjoyment of.
Speaker A:Of.
Speaker A:Of a situation, but I think that's the stuff that turns people off from wanting to enjoy it.
Speaker A:They're like, I'm just gonna get the simple thing that I know.
Speaker A:I don't want to get involved in this.
Speaker A:It's too much.
Speaker A:It's too much work.
Speaker A:It's too much this.
Speaker A:And I think that sometimes the passion turns into that thing that hurts people, that turns them away from things.
Speaker A:And when I tell people about spirits, I'm like, hey, you want to taste?
Speaker A:Come taste.
Speaker A:I will taste anything.
Speaker A:I have.
Speaker A:I've been sampled so many things that are priceless that.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:Who would I be not to do that?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Well, these things are meant to be.
Speaker B:Pardon me.
Speaker B:These things are meant to be shared.
Speaker B:Just the whole social aspect of getting together, whether it's spirits or wine or beer or.
Speaker B:Or, you know, also you want to get into your NA stuff.
Speaker B:That's great, too.
Speaker B:Like, it's, it's about the social quality, not about, oh, I have a 25 year bottle of whatever and I'm going to let you taste a drop of it, but you're probably not going to appreciate it.
Speaker A:No, it's like it's sitting at, sitting at the beer bar and sitting next to somebody that you haven't met before.
Speaker A:And yeah, it starts the conversation.
Speaker B:And I think also with craft beer too, is that the proposition of craft beer is that it's premium ingredients, smaller batches, and because these breweries have the flexibility to make these smaller batches, they can experiment and they're bringing back styles we haven't seen or maybe they're styles that aren't commercially viable for a macro brewery.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think maybe some people are paralyzed by that choice.
Speaker B:They're afraid of ordering the rock.
Speaker B:It's like, it's like we turned wine into a snooty thing back in the 80s and 90s.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And people are afraid to order the wrong wine.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Some of the best bottles of wine I've gotten are like $10 bottles of wine at the Shuber Liquor store on, on Park Ave.
Speaker B:Which is my favorite by the way.
Speaker B:Shout out to Schubert.
Speaker A:Great, great little store.
Speaker B:But again, like, this goes back to like the best drink you can have is the one that's in your hand.
Speaker B:Like, don't feel bad about it.
Speaker B:But I also feel that again, people, there's a fair amount of gatekeeping and we just have to make sure not to turn that enthusiasm into, into something that becomes a superiority complex.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because like, we've, I'm sure we've both waited in our fair share of lines, you know, line beers that we wait for hours.
Speaker A:I remember waiting in lines in, outside of Burlington, Vermont to go get, to go get Hedy Topper.
Speaker A:Still my.
Speaker A:A number one favorite beer ever.
Speaker A:But I waited in hours, long lines at places up there and other places in Massachusetts and those things when New England IPAs were just getting started and for a time it felt very communal and then it felt like people were just going to resell and I think it hurt.
Speaker A:What was a beautiful cultural thing where, yeah, it was limited and we got to enjoy it together and, and you got three, four packs, right.
Speaker A:And you brought it home and you shared it with your friends that have never tried it before.
Speaker B:Guys, I just came back Vermont.
Speaker B:I fresh had a topper in the trunk.
Speaker B:Let's go.
Speaker A:It was amazing.
Speaker A:I mean, how many times did that happen?
Speaker A:And we're like, oh, wow, this what a Day, right?
Speaker A:What a day that was.
Speaker A:And it was special.
Speaker A:So let's pivot off of the culture stuff and let's talk about.
Speaker A:Let's talk about craft beer.
Speaker A:Let's talk about local craft beer.
Speaker A:So one, what is.
Speaker A:What's your style?
Speaker A:Are you a classic style guy?
Speaker A:Are you going for experimental?
Speaker A:Are you an open book?
Speaker A:What kind of style do you personally like the most?
Speaker B:You know, it's funny, we were having this talk the other day with some friends, and I'll go to an ice cream shop like.
Speaker B:Like Netson's right around the corner, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, like, love Netson's.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But even if I'm traveling, I find, like, a place that does custard ice cream, whatever.
Speaker B:First thing I'm getting is vanilla.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, you're so boring.
Speaker B:And it's like vanilla is the base flavor.
Speaker B:And if you can't do vanilla right, you can't do anything else.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:Also one of the most amazing products that exists in the world.
Speaker B:If you.
Speaker B:If you actually sit down and actually have a good quality vanilla, again, like, oh, my God, I'm an ice cream snob.
Speaker B:If you actually sit down and have a good quality vanilla with quality ingredients, it's not just like sugar and cream.
Speaker B:It's sugar, cream, vanilla, and all those subtle flavors that you're looking for.
Speaker A:Those beautiful florals, creamy middles.
Speaker A:It's one of those.
Speaker A:It's one of the world's amazing products.
Speaker A:Vanilla beans.
Speaker B:So the comparison in the beer world, I say, is lagers.
Speaker B:And unfortunately, we've been conditioned to think that lager means cheap beer.
Speaker B:Because when we were growing up and there was no craft beer, the only real beer on the market were lagers from the macro breweries like, you know, Genesee, which we're very fortunate to have in our town.
Speaker B:Budweiser, Labat, you know, whatever it was for you, yeah, that beer was good.
Speaker B:But, like, you got burned out on lagers and you got the idea that all lagers are just cheap beer, and cheap beer must be bad.
Speaker B:But I'm here to tell you that if you like that beer and it tastes good, and it happens to be inexpensive, there is nothing wrong with that.
Speaker B:But also, a lager is the.
Speaker B:Is the true test of any brewer, because you don't just sit there, brew beer and hope it becomes a lager.
Speaker B:It actually has to sit around in the tanks and be aged for anywhere from five to six months.
Speaker A:And these are cold tanks to limit the speed of fermentation.
Speaker A:And that slow fermentation gives us Texture and, and this depth of flavor and.
Speaker B:For a small brewery.
Speaker B:So remember, most of our local craft breweries, they don't have that much capacity.
Speaker B:So for them to make a lager, they're taking up one of their fermentation tanks for six months, where they could be, they could brew anything else in like three to four weeks.
Speaker B:Yeah, but they're taking the time to make a lager.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They're using up their capacity because they believe in that.
Speaker B:And, and again, like, we could talk about lagers and hellas and kolsch and all that, but, you know, at the end of the day, when I walk into any craft brewery for the first time, I'm gonna probably try your helles, your kolsch, your.
Speaker B:Your cremale, especially your crema.
Speaker B:Ho, ho, ho.
Speaker B:I will judge you.
Speaker B:Yeah, I will.
Speaker B:I will judge you and look down at you on your cremale.
Speaker B:Had a very interesting experience in south Florida when my mom was living down there and checked out.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:There's great craft breweries in south Florida.
Speaker B:Actually, one of them had cream ale on the menu.
Speaker B:And I'm like, ho, ho, my people.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And as the bartender about the cream ale, he's like, oh, we have a cherry cream ale, vanilla cream ale.
Speaker B:And I'm like, what?
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:And I had to hold it in.
Speaker B:And I'm like, I think we're speaking two different languages.
Speaker B:Yes, but anyway, but no.
Speaker B:So in short, never be ashamed.
Speaker B:And actually, I find that a lot of the breweries are coming back to lagers now, because you talk to any brewer when they're in the brewery on their brew day and it's a 12 or 16 hour day, or they're hanging out with their friends or they're doing whatever, they're reaching for the jenny, they're reaching for the blue, they're reaching for Molson's, they're reaching for those lagers because they're good, they're rich, they're refreshing.
Speaker B:And when you've spent a career, a lifetime, whatever, of tasting all these beers, your palate gets burned out for sure.
Speaker B:You know, man, go to a brewery and try after you've had your third different ipa.
Speaker B:I challenge you, if I blindfolded you, I'm sorry, you're not gonna.
Speaker B:Your, Your palate wears out.
Speaker B:You get worn out on stout.
Speaker B:You get, you can get worn out on anything.
Speaker B:But, man, you get yourself a nice clean.
Speaker B:You hear people talking about, wow, that's a nice crispy clean.
Speaker B:I'm like, yes, because it's a palate.
Speaker B:Cleanser.
Speaker B:They're refreshing for sure.
Speaker A:And that's, you know, one of the things.
Speaker A:This is kind of the start of me talking a lot more about the work, you know, some of the consulting I've been doing with the Wolf Brewing opening in hopefully late summer, early fall.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker A:So yeah, they're pouring, I think today they were pouring the brewery cement floors.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker A:So the equipment's already, already in town and something that we're definitely doing is.
Speaker B:Loggering and it was great to have.
Speaker B:I actually had DeWolf.
Speaker B:DeWolf made their first festival appearance at Rails and Ales last year and I.
Speaker A:Was super excited about that and that was awesome.
Speaker A:Like, what a great crowd that was and being able to do that.
Speaker A:It was, it was fantastic.
Speaker A:And then, you know, we're just making some, making some beer now with, you know, with a local partner we're working with right now.
Speaker A:Sager has offered us some space to do some brewing there while we're getting our equipment in.
Speaker A:And great to work with Paul and the team over there.
Speaker A:So it's, you know, we're going to be out at the, you know, the, the big Rochester Real Beer Week, which.
Speaker B:Is another fantastic event coming up in.
Speaker A:Two, two weeks or so.
Speaker A:And then we're doing some pop ups around Rochester.
Speaker A:We'll be talking about that.
Speaker A:But when you talk about the wagers and what where we're heading is like, we're gonna have a good selection of those all the time and not just one.
Speaker A:Because those Eastern Euro style craft lagers, they have so much character.
Speaker A:It's not just clean and crispy, it's also rich and deep and complex, but also still crisply bitter and delightful on a hot day.
Speaker A:So that's the stuff I'm excited about too.
Speaker A:Like, I Love, I love IPAs as much as the next person.
Speaker A:And it's still often what I go to first when I'm saying, hey, what's your main line?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:What is your signature beer?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:That's how I usually go into a place I want, whatever their main line.
Speaker B:Is that they, I think a lot of breweries are still, they're still like our flagship is this ipa.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's funny because I hear a lot of beer drinkers saying, oh, I'm so worn out on IPAs.
Speaker B:But you talk to most breweries around town, that's still their sales leader.
Speaker B:So it's like, you know, I feel like our, our brains are saying one, our palates are saying one thing, we're tired of ipa, but our brain is like, no, I Want more of that ipa.
Speaker B:But again, I think that's why.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:I called this a couple years ago.
Speaker B:You know, Paul used to do his year in review for beer.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And beer trends, his beer trends talk.
Speaker B:And I came out like two years ago, and I'm like, loggers.
Speaker B:Loggers is where it's at.
Speaker B:Everyone's like, no, no, no.
Speaker B:And I'm like, yeah, you're gonna see more people doing and.
Speaker B:And lagers, Kolsch Hellis, that whole.
Speaker B:That whole spectrum.
Speaker A:But it seems like we've actually turned the corner.
Speaker A:Like, people talked about it for five years or more, and I think we finally actually started turning the corner where people are buying them, more people want more of them.
Speaker A:For a long time, it was really just the brewer saying, you're all wrong.
Speaker B:They were.
Speaker B:They would brew a lager on a lark.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:Pardon me.
Speaker B:And like swift water.
Speaker B:They would call theirs, like, swift light.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And they would do it as like kind of like a tongue in cheek joke.
Speaker B:But then it's like, you know, man, you ever have like a swift white lime on a hot summer day?
Speaker B:Crushable, like, really good.
Speaker A:The yuzu wanted.
Speaker A:Strange bird.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, Love that Yuzu pills.
Speaker A:I think it's so good.
Speaker B:But I think we've gotten away from, like, the brewers doing them ironically because people were responding to it.
Speaker B:And I think you also hit on something great that we really.
Speaker B:I feel like we take for granted in Rochester is the beer community.
Speaker B:And I feel like that's a term you hear thrown around, like, oh, we have an awesome beer community here.
Speaker B:And it's like.
Speaker B:But it's also like, for real.
Speaker B:When I started doing the beer blog and I used to do a lot more long form writing, I just couldn't do it anymore.
Speaker B:I couldn't.
Speaker B:I didn't have the time.
Speaker B:I'm editing two monthly magazines.
Speaker B:My work, my real world responsibilities ramped up.
Speaker B:I still occasionally do some long form stuff, but the stuff I was writing about was always like, what new brewery is opening up?
Speaker B:Or maybe some partnership or something exciting.
Speaker B:And throughout, when I.
Speaker B:When I was interviewing any brewer about their opening, they'd always be like, oh, this guy from the other brewery helped me out.
Speaker B:Or Dean Jones from Genesee gave me a tip on how to put something together.
Speaker B:And I think that spirit of cooperation where all the local brewer, the585brewers, as they call themselves, right.
Speaker B:They all lift each other up.
Speaker B:I mean, they compete in a fundamental sense where they're trying to get people in their tap rooms.
Speaker B:But A rising tide lifts all boats.
Speaker B:And if they can lift each other up, they're all willing to help each other out.
Speaker B:I know I'll be talking to any brewer, they're like, oh, yeah, so and so call me up.
Speaker B:And I ran over and I helped him connect a hose or you know what, something, something simple as that.
Speaker B:Or it's like they ran out of glasses.
Speaker B:We brought them over like a case of glasses we weren't using.
Speaker B:And it's like, just stuff like that.
Speaker B:And I'll tell you, I go to other cities, I'm not going to lie.
Speaker B:Even places like Syracuse and Buffalo, great breweries, great selections.
Speaker B:They don't have that community.
Speaker B:They're, they're aware of each other and they're not, they're not purposely fighting or putting each other down.
Speaker B:But you don't, you don't have that spirit of cooperation.
Speaker B:And if you feel, you hear people talk about craft beer and Rochester as something special and that it's all integrated, it really is.
Speaker A:Well, and the demand, like, I think it's something, when you talk to, when I've talked to distributors and talk to people from outside, like, we, like, we know it's vibrant, but when we talk to people from outside, they're like, oh, yeah, we, we sent this stuff to Rochester to see how it's going to react.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:In other areas because the demand is so crazy.
Speaker B:I started seeing these top 10 lists and I wasn't believing them.
Speaker B:It's like Rochester's number seven in the world for beer.
Speaker A:Yeah, some of that, most of that stuff I don't believe whatsoever.
Speaker B:But then you start seeing more of it from other sources.
Speaker B:And yeah, you know, it's like again, you can, you can put the hyperbole aside, but it's like people are noticing us for something.
Speaker B:The number that we are in the world is arbitrary and doesn't matter.
Speaker B:But the fact that someone's like, great places for beer.
Speaker B:Milan, Paris, Rochester.
Speaker A:Yeah, And I think that's, I think that does, you know, it's, it's an attributed thing to how passionate the people here are.
Speaker A:How many breweries have ended up succeeding.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's, there's the challenges and we're seeing, you know, seeing the churn right now.
Speaker B:And you could argue it's a rationalization or you can, I mean, and there's also.
Speaker B:I just wrote an art.
Speaker B:I wrote one of my rare long form articles about how seed and stone cider is closing at the end of June.
Speaker A:I saw that, that, that hurt too.
Speaker B:And that's, you know, and they, and they asked me to write that and I interviewed them because there were a mitigating circumstances about that.
Speaker B:You're.
Speaker B:At the end of the day, the craft beverage market is fickle for sure.
Speaker B:And let's face it, that craft beverages are a luxury.
Speaker B:And when you are in an uncertain economy, what's the first thing you cut out?
Speaker B:Luxuries.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And again, you know, we're painting with a broad brush here, but, you know, it, it's.
Speaker B:We pulled back the curtain and they were very, they were very, you know, honest about what was going on.
Speaker B:But it's, it's, it's indicative of the challenges that the industry is facing altogether.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And it's, I think it's still an exciting time.
Speaker A:I mean, I'm excited about, you know, the Wolf opening, but I'm also excited about when I get to go somewhere and I get to try something new.
Speaker A:I get to go somewhere and I get to be excited about what they're making for food.
Speaker A:I get to be excited about this wine or the spirit or, hey, this place is just doing a great job for their community.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because at the end, they're trying to be community centers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I think that's the, the places that succeed the most, that's what they accomplish.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:You have to have good to great beer.
Speaker A:You can't open and have bad beer anymore.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:I mean, you and I remember so many places opening where the beer wasn't.
Speaker B:Good and, and, and the market just dictated that they weren't going to survive.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And there's no room for that.
Speaker A:You can't open without being, if you.
Speaker B:Don'T bring, if you don't bring your, your A game and you're not on top of your game, you're.
Speaker B:And really indicative of any industry.
Speaker B:But when you're talking about an industry that has a premium concept already, if you're not, if you're not in that space, you're not going to compete.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, I mean, we could talk about local beer all day, all night, and I'm sure we're going to do this again just so we can talk about some of the, you know, changes and new places and, you know, maybe grab a couple brewers and do a thing.
Speaker A:That would be great.
Speaker A:But once you put the plugs out again for the Railroad Museum and for the Rochester Beer Blog, sure hope you.
Speaker B:Can come visit us this summer.
Speaker B:We're open most Saturdays through the summer and you can find our website at Rochester train rides.com we are the Rochester and Genesee Valley Railroad Museum.
Speaker B:We're located on Route 251 in Rush.
Speaker B:And my name is Otto Vondrak.
Speaker B:I'm the author of the Rochester Beer Blog.
Speaker B:Yes, it is a real thing and I can be found on Facebook, Rochester Beer Blog.
Speaker B:And I think my website is Rock beer blog, WordPress, blah, blah, something.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:Every time I go to write another article, I'm like, password reset.
Speaker B:What is this?
Speaker B:It's like, it's like breaking down the doors of like an abandoned factory.
Speaker B:But no, I'm the Rochester Beer Blog.
Speaker B:You can find me on Facebook and just, you know, I like telling the stories of local beer.
Speaker B:You probably find me sampling different places.
Speaker B:I love visiting new places.
Speaker B:Love, love visiting my old haunts.
Speaker B:Really, I'm just here to tell the stories.
Speaker B:I want to promote our local beer and I hope you join me.
Speaker A:Otto, thanks so much for coming over.
Speaker A:And if you want to check out other shows on the Lunchadore Podcast Network, go to lunch door.org check out some of our newer shows.
Speaker A:We we have common thread from Rory Van Grohl and Greg Benoit.
Speaker A:We also have nights and weekends.
Speaker A:He's had some fantastic interviews from the Lilac Festival.
Speaker A:Kate and the team are doing an amazing job from the sound, talking about the Rochester local music scene.
Speaker A:And we'll be back next time with more on the Food About Town podcast.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening to the Food About Town Podcast.
Speaker A:If you aren't already subscribed, what are you waiting for?
Speaker A:Go to your podcast app of choice and make us your favorite podcast by subscribing and leaving a review if you can.
Speaker A:Music for the podcast was created by the fabulous Torres Savant.
Speaker A:You can hear more of his work@taurusavant.bandcamp.com and make your presence known by seeing him perform live.
Speaker A:Food About Town is a proud member of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker A:Oh no, here comes McKenna.
Speaker A:This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore Podcast Network.
Speaker A:Stay tuned, stay tuned.
Speaker A:Stay tuned for events.
Speaker A:Stay tuned for DeWolf.
Speaker A:Stay tuned for more.
